Horizon Scandal, How Did They Not Know?

[barney15c]

It begs the question how these seemingly intelligent people  were all taken in and didn't question for one minute  what the PO were saying, didn't they join the dots up. As they say ignorance is no excuse, and I don't for one minute believe than none of these politicians  didn't know something was badly wrong.  They should be hauled up  in front of the  enquiry and forced to tell what they knew and if found culpable be charged for a gross dereliction of duty.

[ToraToraTora]

They did know, they chose to ignore the facts.

[barney15c]

Sorry i  missed off the names.... Ed Davy, Jo Swinson,  Governments of the Day amongst others......

[davebro3]

// be charged for a gross dereliction of duty.//

Is there such a charge in civilian life?

[naomi24]

Anyone who knew those people were being accused of something they hadn't done should be charged with rather more than dereliction of duty.  They've deliberately withheld the truth allowing reputations to be trashed and lives to be ruined.  Absolutely wicked.

[Canary42]

So many times people in authority think then can get away with a cover-up.

They mostly can't, and it makes it ten times worse when they are exposed.

I would imagine a leak-proof cover-up is very difficult to achieve (no way of proving it of course, by its very nature 😁).

[webbo3]

B Liar is the answer...

 

https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-horizon-scandal-tony-blair-was-warned-system-could-be-flawed-when-he-was-prime-minsiter-13047150

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/horizon-post-office-scandal-tony-blair-b2478065.html

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12960715/Sir-Tony-Blair-close-links-Fujitsu-Prime-Minister-signed-900m-Post-Office-contract-firm-1999-despite-warned-Horizon-accounting-software-looked-increasingly-flawed.html

[tomus42]

I don't believe politicians were the problem in this case. They would have been lied to along with everyone else.

The perpetrators of this crime are the management at the Royal Mail, who knew exactly what was going on from the moment they decided that the system should go live. 

They are the ones that decided they would let innocent people go to prison rather than admit their system didn't work.

Even Fujitsu didn't do that. They just built a sheet system and promised the customer they could fix any 'issues' on fly. They didn't prosecute anyone knowing they were innocent.

[barney15c]

Tomus - of course politicians were to blame, the ministers in charge of the PO chose to do nothing over the years ,the alarm bells were there, it was their job to question the PO if they had  any doubts and they didnt, they were clearly negligent, now they are sccrambling for an excuse to distance themselves from this shameless episode.As the expression goes... they had one job....

[tomus42]

//As the expression goes... they had one job....//

They didn't though did they. They had lots of jobs (ie responsibilities). Unlike Paula Vennells who had the one job of managing the post office in a non-criminal fashion.

[Canary42]

I don't see how you can blame Blair - a lot of software is flawed when it first goes live.

Blair wasn't the one who instigated the scandalous prosecutions.

[ToraToraTora]

barney: "Tomus - of course politicians were to blame, the ministers in charge of the PO chose to do nothing over the years " - rubbish, politicians have many calls on their time and before anyone says anything this started under Blair. The people closest to it were covering it up and perverting the course of justice. Ministers of all the main parties have been aware over the years but you cannot blame them, there must be 1000s of things they could look into, they have officials to do that. They have to trust them to give them the answers.  This whole sorry mess is created by the sheer arrogance and brass neck of the sociopaths involved.

[tomus42]

You are right ttt, which is why it's irrelevant that it started under Blair.

The politicians should be judged on how well they deal with the issue now it's public. Both in terms of how well they compensate the victims and how well they hold the perpetrators to account.

[Peter Pedant]

Calm down calm down - - I dont think misfeasance in public officer works as it was arms length as intended

The ministers were entittled to be unaware as their minions repeatedly assured them - "we have looked at this sir, well they have and there is nothing to see, move on"

I think even Appaula Venal gets off - we are agreed that she rang up HER henchmen and asked if she cd guarantee that Horizon was infallible to MPs and was given the answer yes.

so there is a lot of " is this true? can I say it is not true?" and none of " that awful ALan Bates, lets screw him by giving deliberately false testimony" and take all his money

 

 

[Peter Pedant]

Alan Bates is the only one who said

nope not my debt ( Jo Hamilton: but I dont have the money!") He signed a contract before Horison so it is NOT part of his contract. 

I admit the Post Office said - yes it is actually

and today - he DID say "well I took legal advice and was told taking on the Post Office was a financial non-starter"

AND bug eyed Sir Jason Beer has not mentioned " well the only one to have got the law right on that one was your adviser in 2002 - everyone else got it wrong untiil the judge in your case in 2017"

[jno]

I can't see politicians paying the price for this; there's no way they're expected to test PO software themselves.

Mandelson said at the time "The basic development work has been thoroughly evaluated by independent experts who have pronounced it viable, robust and of a design which should accommodate future technological developments". Assuming he can prove this is true, he's off the hook; the problems didn't crop up, let alone expand into prosecutions, till long after Labour left office. I doubt that Cameron will have to take any blame either.