Crosswords5 mins ago
How Long Until There Are No Women In Sports?
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This latest is unbelievable. Not only was the IOC decisoin luducrous but also outright dangerous. Boxing is not a sport to play woke politics with.
This needs to stop NOW.
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"I'm sure there were never aspersions cast on their feminity."
Yes there were. And it was not restricted to East German weightlifters.
It is well known that many (if not most) of the East German athletes who competed in the60s, 70s and 80s excelled only because of the drugs they were fed by the State authorities which gave them male features and strength:
https:/
"The government of the German Democratic Republic (GDR) conducted a decades-long program of coercive administration and distribution of performance-enhancing drugs, initially testosterone, later mainly anabolic drugs, to its elite athletes. The aim of the program, which began in the 1960s, was to bolster East Germany's state image and prestige by winning medals in international competition such as the Olympic Games."
The USSR sisters Irena and Tamara Press were probably the first to raise suspicions of gender tampering (or at least, administering strength enhancing drugs aligned to testosterone). Tamara excelled at the discus and the shot put and was the first woman to break the 60-foot (18.4-metre) mark with the shot.
Just concentrating on that event, the current women's record was set by another USSR athlete, Natalya Lisovskaya. It was set in June 1987 and has never been bettered. Since Tamara Press first set the world record in 1959, the record has never been held by an athlete from anywhere outside the Eastern Bloc.
Suspicions (or in fact, confirmations) of drug enhamced performance are not restricted to athletics or weightlifting. Swimming has seen its fair share too (ask Sharon Davies for first hand details).
This latest adventure by the Algerian boxer is a variation on the theme brought about by the hysterical campaign for "equality" for transgender people. It is fairly clear from the photographs that I have seen of Imane Khelif that he is a man. (If it walks like a duck, etc). No woman should step int a boxing ring with him for two reasons:
1. The idea that a man can compete against a woman in almost any sport is simply outrageous and will spell the end of competitive women's sport.
2. Even where fairly equally matched opponents are involved, boxing is dangerous. Where a woman is pitched against a man it can - and probably will - end in tragedy.
Men can call themselves women if they like. There's no reason why otherwise normally sane people should go along with their fantasy. And there's certainly no reason why an organisation responsible for the safety of its female competitors should do so.
imane khelif has lost an awful lot of boxing matches against other women. from wiki:
"
In the New Delhi 2018 AIBA Women's World Boxing Championships, Khelif participated for the first time, where she ranked 17th after being eliminated from the first round. Then she represented Algeria in the 2019 AIBA Women's World Boxing Championships held in Russia, where she ranked 33rd after being eliminated from the first round against Natalia Shadrina. Khelif represented Algeria in the lightweight event at the 2020 Summer Olympics in Tokyo. She was defeated by Ireland's Kellie Harringtonin the quarterfinals.
Khelif participated in the 2022 IBA Women's World Boxing Championships and became the first Algerian female boxer to reach the final when she defeated the Netherlands' Chelsey Heijnen. She faced Ireland's Amy Broadhurstin the final and was defeated."
it sounds as though she was simply stronger than her opponent in this case. neither the IBA nor the IOC have specified the tests they performed and Khelif is not transgender. she is a woman with DSD with higher levels if testosterone than average but that didn't stop other women from beating her in the recent past.
New Judge - // It is fairly clear from the photographs that I have seen of Imane Khelif that he is a man. (If it walks like a duck, etc). //
I am surprised that your exemplary reasoning and rational approach appears to have deserted your temporarily here.
The idea that you can judge gender simply by appearence is something seriously worrying - and I would suggest, invalid.
By appearence, veteran athlete Fatima Whitbread would be considered to be a man on sight, but sight is clearly not accurate because she is married with children.
"The idea that you can judge gender simply by appearence is something seriously worrying - and I would suggest, invalid."
Nobody can judge gender Andy. That has become purely a matter of opinion (which has led to most of this trouble).
Khelif is one of two boxers permitted to fight at the Olympics despite being disqualified from the women’s world championships last year for failing testosterone and gender eligibility tests.
Last year both fighters were disqualified from the 2023 women’s world championships, with International Amateur Boxing president Umar Kremlev saying that DNA tests had “proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded”. The IBA said that Khelif had initially appealed their decision to the Court of Arbitration for Sport “but withdrew the appeal during the process”. It said Yu-ting had not challenged its ruling.
The IBA also directly criticised the IOC, which has less stringent rules for the Paris Olympics. “The IOC’s differing regulations on these matters, in which IBA is not involved, raise serious questions about both competitive fairness and athletes’ safety,” it added. The IOC position is that both Khelif and Lin “are women according to their passports” and that everyone in the tournament has passed the competition’s eligibility rules. However it has not confirmed exactly what those rules are.
At the moment, it seems only the boxer and the Algerian authorities seem satisfied with the IOC's stance.
but women can in rare cases have XY chromosomes... e.g. in cases of swyer syndrome. khelif was born and raised as a girl. the fact that her appearance is "butch" is not her fault and should not be grounds to disqualify her. i can understand the argument when it comes to trans women but imane khelif is a woman.
"Any entity with a Y is geezer, end of."
there are cases where this is not true toratoratora
https:/
people with swyer syndrome have XY chromosomes and can still get pregnant. are they all men in your opinion?
it's not splitting hairs and people with conditions like that are not "nobody", they exist even if you would prefer that they didn't. it is a section of society that your ideological stance will not account for.
i do not know if imane khelif has swyer syndrome but it does seem likely she has something similar. she is still a woman. furthermore other women have beaten her plenty of times so her testosterone obviously does not confer a decisive advantage... her opponent clearly was not as skilful as past ones who have beaten her.
-- answer removed --
i have already explained to you how a woman can end up with XY chromosomes in a minority of cases and I have provided you with a link that provides a detailed description. you are responsible for informing yourself from there and i think this week has been a lesson to all of us about the dangers of deliberately spreading misinformation.
with that i think we have both laid out what we think. we can leave it there.
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