ChatterBank3 mins ago
Very Sad News Indeed …
So very saddened to read that Graham Thorpe ended his own life. His family has spoken of their sorrow seeing how difficult his life had become.
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Ken - //
I'm with TTT. If you're going to top yourself, why do it in a manner that may put others at risk of injury (i.e. jumping off motorway bridges) or mental scarring.
I had a cousin who succeeded in ending his life at the 3rd attempt. He took himself off to a disused railway shed, made a noose from some nearby twine, also put twine around his wrists and stepped through his arms so that hos hands were behind him. Then he kicked away whatever it was he was using as a stand.
Unfortunately for him, death didn't come as quick as he hoped because the twine snapped and he fell to the floor where he slowly choked to death.
Even in his mental state, he took himself somewhere he knew he would not be disturbed, nor would he put others at risk by doing what he did. //
You have to start from the basic premise that anyone who kills themselves is not thinking rationally - if they were, they would not be suicides.
Therefore, any semblence of rational thought, and that includes thought for anyone else, including, family, friends, and anyone who may have to deal with the aftermath of the death, is simply not there, it disappeared a long time ago.
When someone is that desperate, the need to die is paramount, because, as I explained earlier, it's about stopping feelings that simply cannot be tolerated any more, not for a second.
In that mental state, a dreadful instinct takes over, and drives the individual to do whatever it takes to stop the way they are feeling.
Now everyone is different of course.
Some maintain enough semblance of 'normal' thought to be able to plan out what they are doing - sometimes people plan their death for a very long time.
But the rule, such as it is when dealing with the vast and complex varieties of the human mind, is that the more urgent the need to die, the more violent, and therefore assured of a result, the method is likely to be.
Were it possible to plan, and allow for avoiding as much distress to strangers as possible, then caring person would do that.
But I cannot stress enough, that when this time comes, the normal thought processes and actions of rational thinking are simply not there any more, there is nothing but primal need to stop what's happening, and that is a powerful and undeniable urge.
The person may, as I have said, be taking one last vestige of control over a mind that has long ceased to work in any rational way, but no-one can know that, it's simply a theory of mine.
Your cousin was clearly in sufficient command to be able to think outside himself, many, in fact the majority, simply lack that capacity, and that is not their fault.
Prudie - // You wouldn't have given that 'so correct' answer andy if you had a train driver in the family. //
Actually, I would.
My answer is not 'so correct', but that does not mean it is not factually accurate.
I understand the emotions involved in suicide for anyone affected, directly or indirectly, family and loved ones, or strangers, and it is a tragedy for everyone involved.
Part of being a tube or train driver is accepting that, at some point, some stranger may use your train to end their life, and that is beyond horrible for someone simply doing their job.
It's not right, and it does damage lives irreperably, but again, that does not negate my answer.
I appreciate that giving my view through the medium of print means I am unable to express my feelings fully, and it can and does make me look heartless and unfeeling.
Regulars on here will know that, contrary to that impression, I am neither.
YMB - // I have no time whatsoever for people that top themselves by train. //
I don't think anyone takes their life thinking about the impact on those they leave behind, including innocent strangers whose occupation brings them within the risk perameters of dealing with such a horrible situation.
The people involved deserve all our support and sympathy, and that includes the deceased as well.
Naomi - // You can't generalise. //
I would not suggest otherwise. Suicides are unique, because individuals are unique.
// I think such is the state of mind that some just don't care about the impact on others. Maybe they never cared about anyone else though so that's not even a consideration for them. It happens. //
I am sure that's true in some cases.
But I am equally sure that when tha majority of people who are left to ponder the reasons why their loved one left them in such horible and violent circumstances, such as the Thorpe family, would hopefully know that Mr Thorpe was a kind a good man - all comments to date underline that - and therefore his mind was so crushed by his Depression that he could see no way out other than to absent himself from them, and more importantly at the time, from himself.
Naomi: I "think such is the state of mind that some just don't care about the impact on others. Maybe they never cared about anyone else".
I am glad you have no family or friends who were desperate enough to end their lives in such a shocking way.
The man killed himself partly because he felt his family would be better off without him. Reading between the lines, I feel there are several people here who have felt the same way. Thankfully they are still alive.
"Just hold on for one more day"
I have Manic Depression. I had suspected that I had it for ten plus years before my diagnosis in 1996.
It is an illness and I was open about my illness to friends and work mates. It was amazing how many people who opened up about not only their mental health but also about family members.
Talking really does help.
Taking pot shots at people who commit crimes due to mental illness doesn't help. They may not have been able to differentiate between right or wrong. But I accept that some are just sick psychos.
I lost my job because of my illness and have been unable to work for 20 years.
As someone who has been hospitalised in the past after attempted suicides and chronic depression I can only wish that those of you who have never been in that dark place never will!
Ive also lost a couple of friends to suicide and only wished that I could have done more to help but they hid it well.
Once, in Xmas week, (1995) I was having a drink in the pub with a female friend. She seemed a bit quieter than usual but nothing to worry about. She then said that she was tired and going home. Even mentioned about meeting up in the week for a takeaway. She went home and took her life.
nailedit - //
As someone who has been hospitalised in the past after attempted suicides and chronic depression I can only wish that those of you who have never been in that dark place never will!
Ive also lost a couple of friends to suicide and only wished that I could have done more to help but they hid it well.
Once, in Xmas week, (1995) I was having a drink in the pub with a female friend. She seemed a bit quieter than usual but nothing to worry about. She then said that she was tired and going home. Even mentioned about meeting up in the week for a takeaway. She went home and took her life. //
I think all regulars on here know of your deep and constant struggles with your mental health, and your corresponding understanding of how Depression works, more than the average person would, and as you say, amen to that.
//I think all regulars on here know of your deep and constant struggles with your mental health//
But not all people can empathize Andy. Ive recieved a lot of support on here but also some stick. I know you understand because you have been in the same dark place but I think unless you've been there, you have no idea. Same with my battle with alcohol. I don't expect people to understand addiction if they dont experience it themselves.
As regards chucking yourself under a train, you can say its selfish, but when in that frame of mind its just pure desperation.
nailedit - I was in an isolated French farmhouse - nearest, elderly, neighbour at least 400m away---- otherwise woods and fields. The chap, that awful man, I had idiotically cast my lot in with, turned out to be paranoid schizophrenic after the first couple of years. I survived, following efforts at strangling me, gendarmes called etc. etc., eventually, and managed to escape with the aid of the current O.H. (bless him). I and, I daresay, others, understand the self-destructive urge. I somehow held back. I so nearly killed myself (pills) several times.
I can understand that a train is final.... but I would have held back; last shreds of relating to humans. A dear friend hanged himself from the cherry tree outside his front door - under which branches we had spent many a happy afternoon/evening.
He worked it out exactly.
His wife (a good friend) arose to an empty bed and a file on the kitchen table where he had put every name and phone number she would need - every detail of bank accounts, contracts etc.. Very caring and thoughtful.
Then she opened the kitchen door.
My loving and caring son took his own life in exactly the same way 4 years ago. We received much support from good friends but my late husband and I were so very hurt by those whose ' sympathy' consisted of telling us how selfish he was to treat us in this way, Do some of you really think that someone so desperate as to take this action would be capable of any rational thinking or ' maybe never cared for anyone '. (Thank you Andy and Naildit for trying to explain this)
