Labour Flip Floping On Wfp

[webbo3]

https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-makes-mistake-with-winter-fuel-payment-but-she-has-chance-to-make-corrections-13205994

\\Chancellor makes 'mistake' with Winter Fuel Payment//

A mistake is forgetting your umbrellla when its going to rain, not removing help for vaunerable OAPs

[davebro3]

They'll probably bring in some sort of fudge that will require additional civil servants to administer & cost more to implement than if they reverted to giving to everyone.

[douglas9401]

'probably'

[davebro3]

BBC:

//Pension Credit Week of Action comes as the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) said about 880,000 eligible pensioners are missing out on pension credit, which on average amounts to £3,900 a year.

Pensioners with a weekly income below £218.15 for a single person or £332.95 for a couple are being urged to use the DWP's online calculator to determine their eligibility for payments.//

So if you are a bit above the limit to be eligible for Pension Credit you miss out on up to £4000+ of PC plus other associated benefits. Who designed this farce of a system?

[theshedman]

As a normal pension is around £222 that must mean only those on the old style pension or someone on a reduced one will get it as new pension is £4 over the limit for pension credit.

[barry1010]

I've been railing against it for years, I have two single relatives in that situation.  One is thinking of going in to a care home

[ToraToraTora]

"Labour Flip Floping On Wfp" - you mean the Lady could be for turning?

[newmodarmy]

The whole pension credit cliff edge system as a gateway to so many other benefits is ridiculous and unfair to those who've done the right thing and endup a few pounds or maybe a few thousand pounds over the threshold.

It's also ridiculous to expect many of the 800000 who are said to be missing out to suddenly claim it. Some are too proud.some ate scared that they will be fined if they misclaim or that the DWP will keep checking how they spend it. That's if they know how to log on and fill in 250 questions. It's a charade...the government knows that maybe 90% of those 'targeted by the campaign  won't claim it and the government can say 'we tried'

 

[ToraToraTora]

I actually agree that it should be means tested but the school girl error here is how they are doing it. You work hard and save for a meagre pension above state pension and wallop. Do burger all and get it all for nowt. Now if they set the threshold a biit higher say those on over £25k then fair enough.

[Gromit]

It is not a mistake. Reeves and Labour are not calling it a mistake, Ed Davy is - man who made many mistakes.   
Benefits should go to people who need them, and that is usually done by means testing. Gordon Brown is the one who made the mistake when he introduced the Winter Fuel payment - it should have gone to the most needy from the beginning. But it was an election bribe so everyone got it.  
Labour gave a massive majority and don't need to bribe pensioners for another 5 years, so a very easy cut to make.

[mushroom25]

// Benefits should go to people who need them, and that is usually done by means testing. //

is that why the new government are calling the old age pension "a benefit", so that too can be means tested?

[barry1010]

mushroom, the old government called the state pension a benefit too

[newmodarmy]

Clearly £12000 a year for a pensioner who spends most of the winter stuck in the house is well off enough to be able to pay  £2000 a year for home energy, whereas £50000 a year was consider totally inadequate for a train driver

[Gromit]

It has always been deemed a welfare benefit. And it has always been by far the largest in terms of cost of state benefits compared to all the others.  
Here is an old graphic, but it gives you an idea of the size of the benefit cake taken by pensioners...

https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/benefits_and_tax_credits.png

[theshedman]

How can it be a state benefit when we pay most of our working life for it in the form of National Insurance.

[newmodarmy]

Semantics- you earn your state pension based on number of years contributions. I've paid enough NI each year for over 45 years and will get a full pension. If I'd paid no contrubtions I wouldn't get the state pension- but I could get some benefits.

Other benefits like Universal Credit  do not require a contribution. Now they are benefits.

[theshedman]

Your graphic doesn't say state pension is a benefit.

[newmodarmy]

It could at the margin be a benefit for some, theshedman, because someone who gets full pension for maybe 20 years will draw more pension than they paid in NI. But in my case I paid more NI than I'll ever draw in pension. But the term benefit is clearly wrong for a scheme with a contributory element. The only argument for it being a benefit is that we don't have an individual pension pot, it comes froma  general fund which we contributed to to different degrees.

 

[perseverer]

Spending on benefits (including the state pension) .......?

[newmodarmy]

Yes TTT- means testing makes for WFA but it shouldn't be a cliff edge benefit where at £X.00 you get £300 and £X.01 you get nowt. It should be a sliding scale- say £300 up to £15000,£200 for £15K-£20K and so on.... or simpler still just tax it so some get the full amount, some get the full amount minus 20% and the better off pay 40% tax on it

[mushroom25]

// I've paid enough NI each year for over 45 years and will get a full pension. //

according to informed sources, that would only be the case if your employee scheme pension, or other income, doesn't take you over the "test" limit. which kinda suggests, if it does, you may not get a full pension.