Grenfell, Report Out This Morning......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c623vrw92rrt

ok the cladding is the primary cause everyone agrees with that. Everyone in the chain is to blame but to me the biggest contributors are the fire service. They must have approved the cladding they must have known that the way it was fixed and the material used were both wrong and flammable yet they MUST have approved, why? Were they bunged in some way? Yes we expect the usual suspects would be involved to make/save money but what no one seems to mention is that none of it would get stuck to a building without the approval of the fire sevice.

[newmodarmy]

But there have been people who explained how companies fiddled the approval process- there was good documentary on radio 4.

[newmodarmy]

These companies did it knowingly.

[newmodarmy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60396834

This is part of it but there's a better one I'll try to find to show the tricks they pulled to get clearance despite knowing the risks

[newmodarmy]

17 minutes long but this gives an idea of the lengths people went to (allegedly)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00202m3

 

[ToraToraTora]

... but surely the FS tested the material? I saw a test after the event and they might as well have had capsules of petrol in it.

[ToraToraTora]

BTW thanks for your links NMA, here's a line from one...

//Tests had resulted in a "very rapid, very large fire" and had to be stopped.//

...and they still stuck it to buildings?

[newmodarmy]

Actually, ignore my 'allegedly'

There are admissions of lying and deceit. The episode is  subtitled "The insulation - a tale of 'deliberate and calculated deceit'."

There must also be questions though about how the saftey authorities can be deceived so easily.

[newmodarmy]

You need to listen to the documentary epsiode- they explain how the deceit was achieved. 

[newmodarmy]

This episode is about the insulation though. You can find one about the cladding too. Both contributed.

[newmodarmy]

They tested their insulation with concrete cladding and it passed the large scale test, so they got a certificate. They then tweaked the insulation and when used with metal cladding a nd it failed the fire test. It buried those findings and used their old certificate even though it should no longer have applied as their product use had changed

[piggynose]

It must be sickening for Grenfell victims rels!!!

 

Could this be the tip of the iceberg ?

[Ellipsis]

This is grim ...

Summary

The Grenfell Tower fire that killed 72 people was the result of "dishonest" companies, successive governments, and a lack of strategy by the fire service, a scathing report concludes

All deaths were avoidable, inquiry chair Martin Moore-Bick says, as he delivers his final statement seven years after the fire - press watch live above

The report says a cladding product manufacturer “deliberately concealed” fire risks, while coalition and Conservative governments “ignored, delayed or disregarded” concerns

Warning: This page contains distressing details

[ToraToraTora]

10:59: "it buried those findings and used their old certificate even though it should no longer have applied as their product use had changed" - right I see well someone wants to be in the slammer then. .....

 

[ToraToraTora]

...and another thing why is it going to take 2 years to start prosecutions?

[Peter Pedant]

One very significant reason why Grenfell Tower came to be clad in combustible materials was systematic dishonesty on the part of those who made and sold the rainscreen cladding panels and insulation products. 

oo-er builders !

why two years for criminal charges - usually the criminal investigation precedes the civil inquiries - but  not here - I suspect because this was a fact finding exercise.

These companies did it knowingly.

yeah  but no but - you have to show the directors knew - this is very  difficult, otherwise corporate manslaughter goes down the tube

 

[Peter Pedant]

the text is here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66d817aa701781e1b341dbd3/CCS0923434692-004_GTI_Phase_2_Volume_1_BOOKMARKED.pdf

watch out - there are EIGHT volumes !

[douglas9401]

Just as long as lessons are learned. 🙄