B B C 2 Labour Conference......p M Key Note Speech Coming Up....who's Watching?

[ToraToraTora]

Use this for your observations......

[ToraToraTora]

once again hymie demonstrates his total ignorance.

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, "We have most of our cash and shares salted away in ISAs or other tax-exempt products." I don't know about the other tax-exempt products but investing in ISAs is not "tax avoidance", "it's tax planning".

[newmodarmy]

A distinction without a difference, perhaps?

The term 'legal loophole' is perhaps misleading.

[Hymie]

Setting up a company is a common ploy used to avoid paying tax.

 

TTT claims to have worked in banking, but is completely ignorant of such tactics used by the rich – perhaps he was the bank’s janitor.

 

Any fool can google the topic to find out more – and whether setting up a company would reduce their tax liability.

[New Judge]

"...unfortunately this invariably results in the super-rich paying a lower tax rate than a tea-lady."

Possibly. But considerably more in absolute terms.

What Labour politicians have never grasped is that the super rich will always - always - find ways to shelter their wealth from excessive taxation. If conditions in the UK are infavourable they will offshore their wealth, their income and, if necessary themselves rather than see their cash appropriated.   

You may say "good riddance". But even if these people pay a smaller percentage in taxes than the tea lady, they pay enormous sums in absolute terms.  They also spend much of their income here, generating employment and indirect taxes.

Instead of creating conditions which drive them out, the government should devise a regime to draw more of them in. It is an indisputable fact that 45% of something is infinitely greater than 90% of nothing. 

Similarly if they leave me with morer of my cash, I wiill spend more, paying VAT and other excise duties. I'll be happier and they will be no worse off.

 

[ToraToraTora]

good ole hymie keep it up, perhaps PP will come along in a minute and explain the basics to you.

[ToraToraTora]

did I say PP could explain something?

 

 

[ToraToraTora]

well done judge your patience with the dunderheeds is admirable.

[Hymie]

Although TTT knows nothing about this subject, setting up a company to avoid paying tax is not feasible for most, as their employer will not engage their ‘company’ for their services – but they must be an employee of the company, paying income tax through PAYE.

 

A number of high profile TV presenters have set up companies, with the TV channel paying their company for their services – and thereby reduced their tax liability considerably.

 

There was a famous case recently, where HMRC challenged this arrangement – but the TV presenter won the court case.

[Hymie]

In fact here’s the case I was referring to:-

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47648053

[ToraToraTora]

22:13 I know everything about this subject me old china. I set up my own company as a contract IT consultant in the 90s. The problem is that you miss the important point. A smaller percentage of a lot is more money than 100% of sweet FA. That's what I and others have been trying to crowbar into your cranium me old china. Read what the judge wrote he has more patience than me. Stick to brexit it's less embarrassing for you.

[Hymie]

TTT has reverse ferreted, now claiming he knows everything about the subject (maybe like Trump knows everything) of using companies to avoid paying personal tax.

 

£1.2 million saved by Ms Kelly is not sweet FA to most people (even to Ms Kelly, I would suggest).

[ToraToraTora]

Miss Kelly was deemed covered by IR35. She succesfully refuted that determination and thus was refunded. 

[THECORBYLOON]

TORATORATORA, "22:13 I know everything about this subject me old china."

I think you've listened to a few too many of Donald Trump's speeches. 

Is or was that company, "beautiful"?

[Hymie]

newmodary: -

During my working life, I’ve encountered many people who were employed as contractors/a company (rather than employees) essentially doing the same job as me, as an employee paying PAYE tax.

 

This arrangement suited my employers, as they could hire and fire the contractors at will, with the contractors not paid for holidays, and did not receive other employee benefits.

 

One benefit for the contractors was that they typically received a slightly higher rate of pay (in lieu of holiday pay and other benefits), but the main benefit was that as a limited company they could extract their pay (from the company), paying much less tax than me.

 

If you want to know more, TTT knows everything about this (and about everything else).

[ToraToraTora]

23:08 why do you persist in deliberately missing the point? Yes of course if you pay yourself through a Ltd company in dividends you can avoid a lot of tax and NI, no one is disputing that. When I was doing that I was paying a lot more in tax to the treasury, less percentage wise of course but more actual pounds! geddit? So by scaring off such people the treasury gets less actual pounds. Can you not see that?

[THECORBYLOON]

"when I was doing that I was paying a lot more in tax to the treasury, less percentage wise of course but more actual pounds! geddit?"

If you ended up paying more tax, what was the purpose of the exercise?

[Hymie]

Maybe TTT was more altruistic in those days and wanted to pay more tax.

[newmodarmy]

It's obvious really hymie and corbeyloon. Rather than take a high earning role at say £80k pa and pay a whopping  rate of tax some settle for an easier life and settle for £50000 pa.  But if a favourable tax arrangement makes it more worthwhile to put in the extra effort/ hours/ risks/ stress for £80k he'd do it. He earns more and overall tax paid is more...just at a lower rate.

I do it myself. I only work just up to the point where I pay 40% tax. Thereafter I choose to turn down offers even though my skills are in demand....I'd rather enjoy my time at home than pay 40% tax on every pound.

[newmodarmy]

But if tax rate was 20% I'd be more likely to work extra weeks and therefore pay more tax.