Should We Have An I D Scheme?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/the-uk-is-an-outlier-by-not-taking-up-id-research-finds-as-tony-blair-calls-for-digital-card-shake-up-13273946

Haven't done this for a while, what do we think?

[New Judge]

"it seems a long way from carrying an ID card to show when getting a free bus ride..."

That isn't an ID card, though, is it?

It's a bus ticket. The ID function only comes into play if it is suspected you are not entitled to use it.

 

[jackthehat]

Absolutely not.

Too many opportunities for misuse along the line. Once the information is collated and centralised we would lose all ability to decide how it is used and/or who gets to see it.

[ToraToraTora]

Thanks for all your contributions. On this I have always been on the side of those that say we should not have to identify ourselves at the whim of some official in normal day to day situations. I am still of that view but my attitude is softening somewhat.

[david small]

Inevitable, unfortunately.

[jourdain2]

I've always been against an ID card  for the reasons others have given.  But we have major health and social problems due to people accessing funds build up by others.

So, I would suggest something on the lines of the French 'Carte Verte' which falls short of an I.D card, but does carry your Photo, NI (equivalent) Number and statement of what level of health/social care access you are entitled to, e.g. free prescriptions or payment for prescriptions.  It would stop a lot of abuses.

[Khandro]

I can't for the life of me see why anyone wouldn't want to not show who they are !

But please God, if one is introduced, don't let it be linked to a bloody smart phone.

[Togo]

Those of you without a passport or driving licence   ...   when do you need to produce ID?

[Khandro]

There are 100s of 1000s of people wandering freely around Europe and the EU and we don't have clue who on earth they are, many of them criminals with the intent of harming us.

Nobody should be allowed anonymity without some form of repercussion.

No ID - immediate deportation (including NJ).

[Togo]

The last sect of grasping nosy stards I want to have direct access to my ID or profile is this proven, vindictive, sect of thieving liars being led by the sociopath Starmer. Electing to give these creeps that sort of power would have made Stalin and Hitler green with envy.  

[Togo]

//No ID - immediate deportation//

Dream on. We can't even deport know and identified murderers, rapists or terrorists. Waving an ID card at em isn't going to work.  

[tomus42]

//Nobody should be allowed anonymity without some form of repercussion.//

Very true 'khandro' 😆

I see lots of problems with this without any particular advantages. 

[New Judge]

“So, I would suggest something on the lines of the French 'Carte Verte' which falls short of an I.D card, but does carry your Photo, NI (equivalent) Number and statement of what level of health/social care access you are entitled to, e.g. free prescriptions or payment for prescriptions.  It would stop a lot of abuses.”

An admirable sentiment, Jourdain, but alas it would not work without fundamental changes to the NHS which are unlikely to be forthcoming.

There is currently no requirement to prove any sort of eligibility when taking advantage of NHS services. You can register with a GP with no proof of address or immigration status, ID or an NHS number. You can pitch up at an A&E dept and be treated. There is no need to prove anything. Doctors and hospital administrators have stated categorically that they are not immigration officials and will not challenge the status of anybody who presents as a patient.

As an example, when the Bibby Stockholm barge was used to house small boat arrivals they enjoyed the services of an NHS GP who attended the boat for a weekly clinic. But none of them had settled status in the UK.

There are no standards required – residential, contributory or anything else – to qualify for NHS services. Nobody in the UK will be denied medical care simply because they have no right to be here so whether or not they have an ID card will make no difference to that.

So I’ll as again – what problem would an ID card system solve? The last time it was seriously proposed (in the Blair/Brown era IIRC)  its cost was put at around £12bn. That’s about £200 for every man, woman and child. You can probably double that (as a starting point) now and – if it ever works – the final bill will probably be three times that,

So what will we get for that and what will the benefits be?

[Khandro]

NJ //There is currently no requirement to prove any sort of eligibility when taking advantage of NHS services. //

This is absurdly true, but the ID I suggest would, with the use of Facial recognition, DNA or whatever, identify & clarify the possessor. It would also state that this person is not eligible for the services of the NHS (beyond A&E) as is the equivalent case in other European countries.

Furthermore; The only leader with balls in the EU; the Prime Minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban, (whom God preserve) has passed a most sensible law that entering his country without a visa is a criminal offence, therefore anyone unable to identify themselves are ipso facto criminals, & can be treated & dealt with as such.  

[tomus42]

It's not about you NJ. It's about the immigrants.

Unfortunately you might get caught up in it. We'll all need papers at some point.

[New Judge]

"It would also state that this person is not eligible for the services of the NHS (beyond A&E) as is the equivalent case in other European countries."

Then that would need a change to the NHS regulations because currently nobody in this country is ineligible for NHS services whether hey can prove heir identity or not.

"It's not about you NJ. It's about the immigrants."

I didn' say it was about me. I'm asking what will be gained by it. And so far nobody has come up with an answer.

"Unfortunately you might get caught up in it. We'll all need papers at some point."

I have ID and produce it when required, not when I'm strolling down the High Street.

So let's say the scheme is introduced. It's compulsory to carry your ID card. An immigrant is stopped and he doesn't have one. What will haoppen next?

[THECORBYLOON]

KHANDRO, "Viktor Orban, (whom God preserve) has passed a most sensible law that entering his country without a visa is a criminal offence"

Are you sure about that?

https://london.mfa.gov.hu/eng/page/special-visa-information-in-the-uk

"Hungary does not require a visa from British citizens for any reason (including work) for up to 90 days in any 180-day period.)"

 

[tomus42]

Beyond 'we all need to prove who we are' which I can already do, I've seen nothing to say this would be a good idea.

[Khandro]

Corbyloon // You don't need a visa for Hungary if you have a British or EU passport, as I have done, it acts as sufficient ID.

The people Orban is targeting are those entering from Romania & Bulgaria.                                                        Hungary has a long history of fighting back against invading Islamic hordes, btw.  

[newmodarmy]

Without a fundamental change in things like the way we imprison/deport illegal immigrants, the way we treat patients who present at A&E, for example, it will not solve anything. It'll just become a minor inconvenience for most of us (forgetting to take it when you wear a different coat or suit for work, leaving it behind at a GPs) but will not trouble those who don't have one and want to go under the radar, or have multiple names. I suspect illegals who do want one will be able to buy one from people smugglers as part of their entry package.

[New Judge]

"The people Orban is targeting are those entering from Romania & Bulgaria."

Then he's rather missed the boat because from 1st January 2025 those two countries become full members of the ridiculous Schengen scheme:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2024/12/12/schengen-council-decides-to-lift-land-border-controls-with-bulgaria-and-romania/

Air and maritime restrictions were lifted earlier this year and from the New Year yet another country - Moldova - joins Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Turkey which, to all intents and purposes, effectively border on to France. It also means anybody arriving in Greece (a popular migrant route) will now be able to move freely into Bulgaria (if they were not able to already) and thence into Romania and Hungary and all points west. If Mr Orban wants to stop this he will have to do more than make it illegal to enter the country without a visa. His country now has borders with (if I'm correct) five Schengen members and in normal circumstances the borders with those countries cannot be subject to border control. 

It is little wonder that Europe is flooded with illegal migrants who must be laughing at Europe's stupidity all the way from Sofia and Bucharest to Calais. Those suggesting that making UK citizens walk around with a plastic card in their pocket are peeing in the wind.