Thailand murder

[Bob Carter]

Does anyone share with me some suspicion of the speed with which the Thai authorities found, got a confession from, and then sentenced the two fishermen with the murder of Katherine Horton? Is there any campaign for more rigourous justice in the country?

[Dom Tuk]

In some cases, and this case looks like a prime candidate, not shackling the police with a number of guidelines and best practices actually does solve cases. From my reading of the case, the two convicted of the crime had strong DNA evidence against them and from the rapes I assume it must be semen and bodily fluids. That is very strong indication and the subsequent confession helps.

Now if it were the UK this case would have been taken up by a solicitor who thinks...yeah this is an easy 500K in the bank. He would blow this case out of the water on 1) search warrant issued to board vessel? 2) interviewed under caution? 3) interview taped and free legal rep offered/present? 4) detainee given sufficient time to recover from alcholic effects before interview? 5) eyewitness accounts noted in police books 6) all forms served are signed and dated and correct? 7) and last but not the least confession extracted under duress.

Wonder why we dont solve that many murders or the perpetrators go scot free?

[okeydokey]

Bob.........I'm thinking the same. Just all to fast for me. Now this English girls rape on Saturday, has been found and Trail is starting shortly. I'm not saying their not guilty but it's all a bit quick

[undercovers]

they speeded up this trial in order to reassure holiday makers - justice is not generally that quick in the country. Though it was suprising that they have sentenced them to death though, as this will clearly deter other criminals from pleading guilty to crimes at the outset of trials where traditionally a guilty plea early one would result in les harsh sentencing, now convicts will feel they have nothing to lose by claiming innocents whatever the evidence against them and forcing the country to take on protracted trials

[mike1222]

What difference does it make if all the evidence is there? Assuming that the Police have carried out their investigation within the guidelines laid down by that country, what's the argument?
I fully echo the sentiments of Dom's last two paragraphs but would add my usual comment about the judicial system in the UK - in this country there is no connection between the law and justice!

[johnlambert]

I think the Thai authorities were under severe politcal pressure to find these people in order for their tourist industry to show forgieners that the county is safe, remember that tourism is one of the major industries in Thailand. Justice had to be done, and seen to be done swiftly in order to recover from any potential lost revinue.

That said it all happened a wee bit too swiftly for my liking, and , as a supporter of the death penalty, I only hope the due process of the law was carried out, which I doubt it was.

[WoWo]

Doesn't seem odd to me. If anything I can't see why things take so long over here.

It's generally down to building a case against somebody and also allowing the defence to build a defence.

If they two people admitted to the crime then I can't see why things should be dragged out.

[stevie_c2it]

As forensic scientists (and police agencies) in the West are discovering, DNA is the �Holy Grail� of criminal detection. If your DNA is present, you must be guilty, there is no defence.
Of course in order for there not to be any abuse of this �magic wand�, you would have to trust in the integrity of the people collecting it 100%, be certain they are absolutely infallible, and have no other agenda, or be subject to any external influence. I.e. they will be robots.

Next time your leaving the pub, just think you�ve left more than enough DNA on the glass you put on the table to have you convicted of just about anything. If someone were to misuse it, that is. But of course no-one would ever do anything like that�.would they?

[Loosehead]

DNA proves you where there, it doesn't always mean you are guilty. This scenario seems clear enough but imagine a similar case where the girl has had consenting sex with someone shortly before being raped, would they end of executing the bloke because of the presence of his DNA?

[jno]

DT the point of procedural rules, in Britain and elsewhere, isn't to prevent arrests and convictions but to ensure that they happen to the right people. When you jail an innocent person, remember, it also means the guilty ones still go scot free.

[jimmer]

well dom...

from the bermuda police:

He also said the Met was the world's most successful major city force, contrasting its 85 per cent murder clear-up rate with Paris, on 75 per cent, Dublin, 74 per cent, Amsterdam, 70 per cent, and Washington, 44 per cent. However, the Met force's clear-up rate for homicide - murder, manslaughter and infanticide - lags significantly behind the national average. While Scotland Yard recorded successes in only 85 per cent of cases in the last official statistics, covering 1998, the national average was nearly 95 per cent. After a spate of gangland murders, the Met statistics for 1999-2000 could be worse.

jim

[libertie]

Just beeen chatting about this case in the office over coffee, and almost everyone thought it was indeed a very quick outcome......and none of us were 100% confident that they were indeed guilty!!

[Drusilla]

It's a sad indictment on us all when a police force does its job with vigour and we all get suspicious and raise queries. (Me included, I might add)

None of us seem capable of believing the Thai police just happened to be on the ball in this case. The two suspects were drunk and boozers are not renowned for covering their tracks efficiently.

Speed of justice enables the family of the victim to move on. We have become obsessed with miscarriages of justice, lost regard for the feelings of victims in criminal cases and possibly grown too cynical and suspicious of the motives of police forces.

Three cheers for the Thai police on this occasion.

[Drisgirl]

DNA - Tick

Admission of guilt - Tick

Confessions to other crewmates - Tick

Good.swift policing and justice - Tick

What is the problem?

We should be saluting the authorities in Thailand instead of being cynical IMO.

[libertie]

Suppose (for me at any rate) it's just the thought of them being executed then it emerging that they were wrongly convicted!! As for the dealth penalty being a deterrent....well, it did'nt appear to deter them!

[Drisgirl]

libertie - I am against capital punishment.It didnt deter them because by all accounts they were drunk and were hyped up by watching porn all afternoon.There is absolutely no excuse for what they did to this poor woman - it is barbaric - but I suspect she drowned rather than being murdered.They didnt care though and she wouldnt have drowned had she not been so horrendously beaten and thrown in the sea.

[libertie]

Absaloutely agree that it was a horrendous crime and they deserve to be punished for it...just not executed!

[Trotbot]

Thai police are famed for their ability to extract a confession to suit their requirements. It would appear that evidence (as reported to the media) points to guilt in this case, but that is a happy co-incidence.

More interesting is the death penalty. Normally (actually, always) in Thailand if you confess to a capital crime, the death penalty is commuted to life inprisonment. However, the Prime Minister, Khun Taksin Shinawatra, called for the death penalty to show justice is being done. However, Ms Horton's mother said that was not right. Nevertheless, it will happen as the boss man has spoken and tourism is paramount.

[WoWo]

"More interesting is the death penalty. Normally (actually, always) in Thailand if you confess to a capital crime, the death penalty is commuted to life inprisonment."

Puts a whole different spin on it, perhaps they knew the police had them banged to rights that they thought our best chance is to confess and get life rather than risk a not guilty plea.

[Lonnie]

I'm with Drisgirl on this one, from all the evidence, they are guilty, and regardless the reason of the speed over there, and as i'm pro capital punishment, the death penalty is the right one, I know there are good arguements against it, but over here, the two guilty ones would eventually have been let out, to re-offend if they wanted, this way it won't happen.

[johnlambert]

Lonnie got it 100% right, they will never re offend again