BNP, Right wing or Left wing

[jrtv]

Lord Tebbitt has said after reading the BNP manifesto that he found no evidence of right wing tendencies, in fact the opposite, they where left wing.

So why does the press regard them as extreme right wing

[Whickerman]

maybe he thinks that because I seem to remember him being far to the right of Hitler? In fact, I'd say he's probably tried having the left side of his body grafted on to the right

[youngmafbog]

There is often very little between any extreme party. They are all dangerous and to be watched carefully.

[PhilBy]

I dare say next to Tebbitt the BNP manifesto will appear to be left wing.

[noxlumos]

Norman Tebbit is the genetic link between Adolf Hitler, General Franco and Pinochet so sod anything he has to say it's not relevent. The man's so right wing he can only walk in small right handed circles so anything in the world is left of his view.

[jake-the-peg]

Norman Tebbit is a right wing democratic politician. He is doubtlessly takes pride in being "Right wing" and dislikes sharing the name with thugs like the BNP. - Hence the comment.

One of the defining characteristics of far right wing groups such as the BNP is a strong (often violent) nationalism.

This is clearly shown in the BNP and appeals to national pride are also often a feature of more moderate right wing groups (in the UK and other countries)

I would imagine that Tebbit considers the defining characteristic of Right wing politics to be economic values ( where he can distance himself from the BNP )

It's just much the world disagrees with that characterisation being on purely economic policy

[Ward-Minter]

The man was a genius. The "Get on your bike" was political genius. Further, the way he handled himself with steeley resolve and stiff upper lippedness over the tragedy of the Grand Hotel Brighton bomb will tell me what a dignified true blue he was.

After the bomb (which remember paralysed his wife) he quoted "The IRA have shown the world what they really are. Piles of dung"

I would argue that the original "Stormin Norman" is amongst the last great Politicians of this country along with Baronness Thatcher, Baron Brittan and Derek Hatton.

[Whickerman]

Derek Hatton? In fairness to you, and I disagree with you on poilitics most times you post, that really was a bolt from left-field...!

[Pippa68]

I hate to say it really, but I am with you WM!

[jrtv]

Hitler was a sociaist, just thought I'd point that out.

[Loosehead]

The press like the Left/Right ring one dimensional model but it does not fit the reality. A lot of people are labelled right or left for various tendencies but look closer and you'll see that it's not that simple. For example most consider me to be right wing however my transport and utilities policy is hard left.

See here for a 2D view, make sure you read the expanation first. In this system, Hitler for example is not very right wing but very "authoritarian".

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[Ward-Minter]

loosehead i am bang on the line of authoritarian. If you draw a diagonal line between Mugabe and Blair I am he. Mmmmm, strange.

However, I must confess that whilat my heart lies in Rural Ol' Blighty and a love of all things cultured and British. Where heritage is fundamental to my beliefs and the song of Jerusalem still sends the hairs on my neck up, I abhor fox hunting. A contradiction or what?

[Loosehead]

This is my 3000th answer.

Not really wardy I think certain things are just personal I bet there's as many left and right against fox hunting. I know for example that Europhiles/Phobes cross the political divide. There are clear things that label someone left/right but there are many other things that don't. Ditto Jerusalem by the way. I just love belting it out at Twickers.

[dawkins]

where to start. Loosehead is quite right that its not as simple as left or right and the compass does give an alternative view of political ideology. However, lord Tebbitt is, of course, playing devil's advocate when he says the BNP are left wing. The true definitions of left and right are as follows:

Left - Characterized by sympathy for principles such as liberty, equality, fraternity and progress.

Right - Characterized by sympathy for principles such as authority, order, hierarcy and duty.

Using the above definitions it is clear that the BNP follow a right wing ideology.

On the other hand the BNP have a deep mistrust of capitalism and its economically liberal global perspective. They also have an afinity with certain socialist ideals such as community over individual rights.Most left wingers politically are interventionists economically and vice versa. This definition does not apply to the far right groups and that is where Tebbitt can rightly make his claim.

Most of the views of the BNP could equally be ascribed to National Socialism (nazis). and in fact when one reads their manefesto one sees the BNP are pretty unashamedly "democratic fascists". Fascists who play by the rules of democracy. Of course so was Hitler until he got power.

D

[jake-the-peg]

Good website Loosehead

Interesting how few politicians appear below the line on authoritarianism!

I think that probably tells us a lot about those who seek political office.

PS - Unlike pretty much everybody I meet I just can't get worked up about fox hunting one way or another.

It's a bit like finding yourself in the middle of a bar brawl and not knowing what side your on sometimes!

[gary baldy]

What must be remembered above and beyond all of this is that 'Gripper' Tebbitt is as mad as a bag of coat hangers!
That bump on the head he got in Brighton only made he even more potty!
His opinion is about as valid as Muffin The Mule's!
Thinking about it Muffin the Mule is probably has a more trustworthy opinion on political matters than this nutter.

Who cares what this decrepit old has-been thinks anyway?
He is a relic from a darker age who should be rolled off the White Cliffs of Dover on a tandem - with his old boss in the other seat!

[jno]

ah yes, Jerusalem... to quote Wikipedia:

"the first verse is a series of questions to which the 'truthful' answer is no, while the second frames a series of demands to which the reply might well be "get them yourself!".

[bernardo]

The question of whether the BNP is left- or right-wing is an old chestnut about which Tebbit has had a bee in his bonnet for a long time. The point which I think he has misunderstood or overlooked is that there is a categorical difference (i.e. a qualitative difference, not just a quantitative one) between "right wing" and "far-right wing". Suggestions that the NSDAP and/or BNP are partly socialist or "left-wing" are misguided; they only play lip-service to anything like socialism. The Nazis in power let capitalism and big business run rampant, and they clamped down hard on warkers and trade unions.

[Montauk]

"Left - Characterized by sympathy for principles such as liberty, equality, fraternity and progress.

Right - Characterized by sympathy for principles such as authority, order, hierarcy and duty."

Nonsense. Right and left wings refer to the amount of economic freedom a government is allowing their own citizens; Essentially, it shows how much they embrace capitalism. The BNP re socialist crackpots who probably haven't got a good economics degree between them.

You can have right wing liberals and left-wing authoritarians; Don't kid yourselves. The BNP are socialists, left-wingers and their ideological opponents are right-wingers. Deal with it.