ChatterBank1 min ago
Whale hunting
Is anyone else horrified by the Japanese/Norwegian/Icelandic attiude to whale hunting?
These are intelligent mammals. No reasoning can excuse this vile trade.
The Japs said "whale meat is an important part of our tradition". Well, burning withces was part of ours but we changed. How can we help in the campaign to ban this?
These are intelligent mammals. No reasoning can excuse this vile trade.
The Japs said "whale meat is an important part of our tradition". Well, burning withces was part of ours but we changed. How can we help in the campaign to ban this?
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In fairness to Kempie, I don't think he's condoning whaling, just pointing out what he feels is a doubvle standard.
I love meat, but wouldn't eat a cat. Is this a double standard? Probably. Am I bothered? No.
I will be writing to the Japanese embassy to point out that should they recommence whaling for meat I'll be boycotting Japanese products. That's me, not asking for anyone's approval!
I love meat, but wouldn't eat a cat. Is this a double standard? Probably. Am I bothered? No.
I will be writing to the Japanese embassy to point out that should they recommence whaling for meat I'll be boycotting Japanese products. That's me, not asking for anyone's approval!
I have to partially agree with kempie, and think maybe that the point is being missed. I object strongly to our anthropomorphism of certain animals above others. Hence whales become intelligent when we know next to nothing about them, yet rats which display very intelligent like characteristics are simply disease bringing scum. Not many people care about rats convulsing in pain after eating posion of chewing their legs off in traps. Stick a spear in a whale though and everyone flips their lid. At least they're eating the whales.
I don't think any animal ought to be put through pain before death, but I hate the way some animals are placed in higher esteem, fo no good reason. And it's not just the endangerment factor, as cuddly Mr Fox will testify to.
I don't think any animal ought to be put through pain before death, but I hate the way some animals are placed in higher esteem, fo no good reason. And it's not just the endangerment factor, as cuddly Mr Fox will testify to.
as dennis leary said:
We only want to save the cute animals, don't we? Yeah. Why don't we just have animal auditions. Line 'em up one by one and interview them individually. "What are you?" "I'm an otter." "And what do you do?" "I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands." "You're free to go." "And what are you?" "I'm a cow." "Get in the f***ing truck, ok pal!" "But I'm an animal." "You're a baseball glove! Get on that truck!"
We kill the cows to make jackets out of them and then we kill each other for the jackets we made out of the cows.
i think whale hunting personally is nasty and should be stopped but i also see the hypocrisy of grading suffering and which animals deserve protection.. i think it is apparent though that that the suffering whales endure before death is longer and more painful than the bolt through the head, so although i appreciate the hypocrisy of doing so,i'm going to say i whale hunting shouldn't be allowed but i may well still enjoy a nice steak from time to time
We only want to save the cute animals, don't we? Yeah. Why don't we just have animal auditions. Line 'em up one by one and interview them individually. "What are you?" "I'm an otter." "And what do you do?" "I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands." "You're free to go." "And what are you?" "I'm a cow." "Get in the f***ing truck, ok pal!" "But I'm an animal." "You're a baseball glove! Get on that truck!"
We kill the cows to make jackets out of them and then we kill each other for the jackets we made out of the cows.
i think whale hunting personally is nasty and should be stopped but i also see the hypocrisy of grading suffering and which animals deserve protection.. i think it is apparent though that that the suffering whales endure before death is longer and more painful than the bolt through the head, so although i appreciate the hypocrisy of doing so,i'm going to say i whale hunting shouldn't be allowed but i may well still enjoy a nice steak from time to time
Denmark was the main culprit in providing a crucual vote in support of whaling (Norway openly conducts commercial whaling).
I don't think the real issue is about whales being intelligent mammals which somehow makes them a special species from all others.
The difference is that meat being an essential part of our diet- (I am not a vegetarian as you can tell)- is sufficiently provided by poultry and farm animals (who are raised, breeded for this very purpose) so there is no good reason to start hunting other animals such as whales, sharks etc. for more meat. They are purely a delicacy, like caviar.
These animals dont carry any additional nutrients that cannot be satisfied by our daily diet (of poultry meat etc) so why hunt them ?
I don't think the real issue is about whales being intelligent mammals which somehow makes them a special species from all others.
The difference is that meat being an essential part of our diet- (I am not a vegetarian as you can tell)- is sufficiently provided by poultry and farm animals (who are raised, breeded for this very purpose) so there is no good reason to start hunting other animals such as whales, sharks etc. for more meat. They are purely a delicacy, like caviar.
These animals dont carry any additional nutrients that cannot be satisfied by our daily diet (of poultry meat etc) so why hunt them ?
just to clarify - our teeth our called canines merely because of their position in the mouth - same as every other mammal.
in terms of the usage of our canines in the way other mammals use theirs is laughable - they are useless as canine teeth.
most mammals have these 3 types of teeth - they just evolve into what is the most useful to them - we do not need canine teeth as their function is to pierce and hold onto the prey, we could manage perfectly well without them as we do not use our mouths to hunt.
incisors cut and slice, molars chew, thats all we need
in terms of the usage of our canines in the way other mammals use theirs is laughable - they are useless as canine teeth.
most mammals have these 3 types of teeth - they just evolve into what is the most useful to them - we do not need canine teeth as their function is to pierce and hold onto the prey, we could manage perfectly well without them as we do not use our mouths to hunt.
incisors cut and slice, molars chew, thats all we need
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Since this forms the crux of the argument, could someone supply any links to scientific studies which actually attest to the intelligence of the whale (especially those species being hunted)?
Here is one view to start us off.
Here is one view to start us off.
There was a recent report that made all the newspapers a couple of months back. Independent testers were hired to guage the accuracy of Wikipedia, and it came out at about 82% I believe. So take the info with a pinch of salt. What was more interesting is that it was about 2% more accurate than the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Hang on, the argument is very, very simple. Whales are on the verge of extinction. Legalisation of commercial whaling will cause this to happen. Therefore, it shouldn't be allowed. End of arguement.
Everything else is flim flam. It's not about intelligence, it's not about how cute they are and it's not even about how humane the killing is (though the answer is 'not at all').
If cows were on the edge of extinction, we wouldn't support killing them either.
Everything else is flim flam. It's not about intelligence, it's not about how cute they are and it's not even about how humane the killing is (though the answer is 'not at all').
If cows were on the edge of extinction, we wouldn't support killing them either.
BIgB - if you really knew how WikiPedia works you will notice that at the bottom of the page are references to the material from which the information comes, allowing you to check the validity of any claims made.
It was never my intention to hold it up as evidence in and of itself; as I wrote, it is a place to start.
It was never my intention to hold it up as evidence in and of itself; as I wrote, it is a place to start.
Waldo - Some species of whales are under the threat of extinction, not all.
The original question was entirely related to intelligence, so for BigB to jump ship now just shows that the original premise was incorrect.
The question mocks that the Japanese say eating whalemeat is a tradition. How is eating cows not also a tradition?
How can you argue that killing a cow is justifiable and a whale not. Is it not more reprehensible that in one year the number of whales killed is in the low thousands, but in the same period the number of cows killed is in the high millions?
The original question was entirely related to intelligence, so for BigB to jump ship now just shows that the original premise was incorrect.
The question mocks that the Japanese say eating whalemeat is a tradition. How is eating cows not also a tradition?
How can you argue that killing a cow is justifiable and a whale not. Is it not more reprehensible that in one year the number of whales killed is in the low thousands, but in the same period the number of cows killed is in the high millions?
Kempie,
Im afraid you are wrong .The original question was entirely related to someones opinion of the whale hunting countries attitudes.
"These are intelligent mammals" was, in my opinion, a statement of fact to add weight to an argument. ABers have moved over to concentrate more on the "intelligence" part of it.
You also say you would be a hypocrite if you take a moral stance against killing whales for their meat. I agree.
However you need to look at the reasons why whales are hunted. It is not because they "need" the meat it is because whale meat is a tradition. The same as Foxhunting was.
Im afraid you are wrong .The original question was entirely related to someones opinion of the whale hunting countries attitudes.
"These are intelligent mammals" was, in my opinion, a statement of fact to add weight to an argument. ABers have moved over to concentrate more on the "intelligence" part of it.
You also say you would be a hypocrite if you take a moral stance against killing whales for their meat. I agree.
However you need to look at the reasons why whales are hunted. It is not because they "need" the meat it is because whale meat is a tradition. The same as Foxhunting was.
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