escaped rapists?

[cameo]

just heard on the news about the 2 convicted rapists escaping from an open prison in wales.
it seems that everyday there is some terrible news that makes me think that we can't get anything right.
both prisoners had life sentences - not that that means anything these days - why were they being held in an open prison?
they raped kids for gods sake.
they shouldn't be allowed in an open prison.
they should throw away the bl***y keys.
it makes me so angry.

ok. rant over!

[jno]

well, nobody gets everything right. My guess would be there are plenty of rapists safely locked up. The fact that a couple get away doesn't mean the whole system is a disaster. I do hope that someone in the Home Office is asking the same question as you, though.

[cameo]

i know you right jno.
i'm sure that there are plenty of rapists ect. who are locked up for a long time, it's just that when you wake up and the first news you hear is this, well it just made me very angry.

[brionon]

Rapists ? Open Prison ? Does something sound a bit Odd here ?

[Cobra.]

Why were they in an open prison.

Surely they should be in the section for sex offenders locked away from general population

[wonderwoman1]

all rapists should be castrated and have "i am a pervert" tattooed across their foreheads!!
still dont understand the open prison thing though

[jno]

they've been found - at the Rat Trap, which seems appropriate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5228098.stm

[Oneeyedvic]

The prisoners would have been classed 'a' or 'b' category at the beginning of their sentence. One they have done a proportion of their sentence, (Espinall was sentenced in 1992, 14 years ago), they will be transferred to a open prison.

This is because they will eventually be released, and an open prison is a stepping stone for them to be able to enter back into society.

Now that they absconded they will be transferred back to a b class and this will also effect their parole.

[jno]

thanks for ther explanation vic. I'm always a bit bemused why anyone would escape from an open prison when their time's nearly up; but I don't suppose jailbirds are always the sharpest awl at the cobbler's.

[sixpence]

I remember reading recently that a very high percentage of sex offenders NEVER re-offend, so I suppose, whatever we think of the crime they committed, they should be allowed to serve their sentence get on with their lives. It is cases like these that make the news. Good news doesn't sell papers.

[Dolly1308]

So it wasn't your daughter or sister who these scum raped then SIXPENCE? You may not think as kindly of them if it had been !

[Oneeyedvic]

Dolly - are whole justice system is based on punishment and not retribution - personally, if it was a member of family who was raped, I (like the majority of people) would like to see the person dead - HOWEVER, luckily, I'm intelligent enough to realise that I am not the most rational person to make that judgement - hence the reason for a judge.

Whilst I don't want to get involved in another life means life debate, please realise that a person can recover from a rape, however if life meant life regardless, the criminal may just as well murder the victim - no worse sentencing and no chance of being identified by the victim.

[jonnythebosh]

Sixpence, the vast majority of sex offenders reoffend and usually every time it gets worse and worse. They should be put away for ever not as a punishment but to protect the public. The punishment should take the form of solitary confinement with tough work every day of their sentence so that the very mention of prison makes them shudder. Maybe then there would be a genuine deterrent instead of the holiday camp they can expect.

[jno]

'the vast majority of sex offenders reoffend'? Total rubbish. Where did it come from, the Daily Mail or just your fevered imagination?

The rate is about 10%. Statistics here:

http://www.bfms.org.uk/Text_Assets/HO_Findings _164.pdf

[jonnythebosh]

Alright jno what about asking all the women and children who have been attacked by repeat sex offenders after there release? One name for you, Craig Sweeney. Just one of thousands who keep on and on and always will do.
I'm sure there are statistics to back up both our arguments. I prefer to use my experience of 10 years being a prison officer and seeing the same old faces coming back into the sex offenders wing as the basis of my argument or do you know better?.

[jno]

no, there aren't statistics to back up your argument. If you find any, produce them.

[sixpence]

Dolly1308. I'm sure I didn't say that I thought kindly of them, but you know nothing of my experiences in life, and there will obviously be different ways of dealing with things for all of us.

[jonnythebosh]

Here are my statistics jno. There were 17 sex offenders on the seg unit that i worked on when i left the service in feb 2004. 2 were first offenders, 6 were in for the second time, 5 third time offenders, 4 fourth time or more.
Now you can trot out as many stats as you like but i know from my time guarding these people that once they take that route they are 90% certain to do it again.
If you don't believe me then write or email the Prison Officers Association and see what stats theys throw back at you, or their view on sex offender recidivism rates.
Happy hunting.

[Oneeyedvic]

Yeah, and my mate says.....

...what a ridiculous statement - obviously, all your statistics are true, and the home office are just making all their statistics up!

And as for asking the POA - why would a workers trade union keep any statistics on reoffending rates?

Another perosn who is happy to trot out their own 'true' statistics with no evidence!

[jonnythebosh]

If you believe Home Office figures then you must still get visits from the tooth fairy, and how it Santa these days.

[Oneeyedvic]

Yes - you are totally right. I will now stop looking at all published research and choose to believe someone who comes on to an anonymous site and says he is an ex prison warder - that makes far more sense!