ChatterBank2 mins ago
Profiling at Airports
Why don't we simply stop and search ALL young Muslim like men travelling alone and subject them to rigorous searches at airports?
Let's face it, the chances of my blowing up a plane (white, mid 30's, travelling with my Wife and our three year old daughter) are, I would suggest, siginificantly less than a Muslim man in his early 20's travelling alone.
If this is classed as racist by the hand wringers, then fine, I'd much rather be a racist and prevent a plane being blown up, than allowing a bomber on board for fear of being called racist by singling them out.
Let's face it, the chances of my blowing up a plane (white, mid 30's, travelling with my Wife and our three year old daughter) are, I would suggest, siginificantly less than a Muslim man in his early 20's travelling alone.
If this is classed as racist by the hand wringers, then fine, I'd much rather be a racist and prevent a plane being blown up, than allowing a bomber on board for fear of being called racist by singling them out.
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I believe one of those arrested last week was a white, british muslim. I don't know what he looked like. Hmm ... possibly a white man with a beard, some sort of cloth hat or bandanna to cover his hair, eastern style clothing? Whilst that would be stereotypical, I've been to a music festival this weekend and seen several thousand like that. I doubt they were all white Muslims.
Saying that, we've had plenty of darker-skinned young men and women through the gates too. What do we do - get security to search them all?
My point is that you can't pick people out as possible terrorists based on what they look like.
Saying that, we've had plenty of darker-skinned young men and women through the gates too. What do we do - get security to search them all?
My point is that you can't pick people out as possible terrorists based on what they look like.
There was a piece in The Independent yesterday which alluded to airport profiling, with the suggestion that families will be 'fast tracked' through.
I see a whole can of worms opening here.
Let's say a policy was introduced to stop and search all young Muslim men flying abroad...what do you think the affect will be on those young men who already feel marginalized?
Don't you think that this would further push them into the arms of those who are trying to radicalize them?
By the way - yes, it's true that one of the suspects is white. From the photos I've seen in the papers, you would also have to include Justin Timberlake and Shayne Ward in the suspect groups list, because that's who he looks like.
I see a whole can of worms opening here.
Let's say a policy was introduced to stop and search all young Muslim men flying abroad...what do you think the affect will be on those young men who already feel marginalized?
Don't you think that this would further push them into the arms of those who are trying to radicalize them?
By the way - yes, it's true that one of the suspects is white. From the photos I've seen in the papers, you would also have to include Justin Timberlake and Shayne Ward in the suspect groups list, because that's who he looks like.
Flip-flop has a point. It makes sense to let the white family off to Benidorm through quickly and search the single dark skinned young men/women more thoroughly. I know that sounds racist (the bloody 'R' word again ) but every bomber/suspect we've seen on TV here or in USA has looked middle-eastern. The peace loving Muslems should not have a problem with this.
No, hang on - if white families would be fast tracked, then so should black and Asian families.
Can you imagine what would happen in airports if your average Benidorm-going, beer-gutted, chavved up family saw some young Muslims being herded off to a special area? There would be fights left right and centre.
No - this is overkill pure and simple.
Would you have agreed to every Irish man being stopped and searched in the streets in the 1970 because of the IRA?
Are you willing to p*ss off 600,000 Britsh Muslims in order to possibly catch, what? 20 people???
Can you imagine what would happen in airports if your average Benidorm-going, beer-gutted, chavved up family saw some young Muslims being herded off to a special area? There would be fights left right and centre.
No - this is overkill pure and simple.
Would you have agreed to every Irish man being stopped and searched in the streets in the 1970 because of the IRA?
Are you willing to p*ss off 600,000 Britsh Muslims in order to possibly catch, what? 20 people???
Well, yes - why not? If those 20 people were stopped from blowing up 20 planes, and they were stopped because they were singled out through profiling, then I really could not give a tinker's cuss if this upset 600,000 British Muslims: if anything, they should be grateful. If, as we are always being told, the vast majority are peace loving (which, as it happens, I personally believe is the case) then surely they would support such measures.
If someone is stupid enough to kill possibly hundreds of innocent people and ultimatly themselves in the name of whatever god they have, wouldn't it save a lot of messing about when they are caught to show a zero tolerance policy and execute the scumbags.I know that the lefty head strokers will say "oh no we must try and rehabilitate them",but i stand firm in my view that if they are executed like the murdering cowards that they really are they will not be elevated to the martyr status that they so dearly crave.
Good to have you back sp1814. Hope you had a good time at the concert. I think that would be a prejudice against them as not all muslims are black or asian looking. So reading from your question are you saying that because they don't look like a typical middle eastern they should be excluded? Or is this question directed at all muslims irrespective of their colour?
Thank you Kev...I had a marvellous time at the concert, and don't even feel ripped off at the �175 I paid to see her.
Back to the point though...I agree that if profiling is to work, it has to be far more explicit that to just target all young 'dark skinned' travellers.
Like you say, not all Muslims look llke terrorists. Profiling would only work in conjunction with intelligence data.
And furthermore, you cannot waive white British families through. You simply can't. It would severely p*ss off everyone who doesn't have a beer gut and bad taste in travel luggage.
Only kidding...
Back to the point though...I agree that if profiling is to work, it has to be far more explicit that to just target all young 'dark skinned' travellers.
Like you say, not all Muslims look llke terrorists. Profiling would only work in conjunction with intelligence data.
And furthermore, you cannot waive white British families through. You simply can't. It would severely p*ss off everyone who doesn't have a beer gut and bad taste in travel luggage.
Only kidding...
I'm pretty sure that it would take about ten seconds to work out that if non-asian people got less of a hard time at the airport, the next plane-oriented act of terrorism would be carried out by non-asian muslims who would take advantage of a less-rigourous search regime.
If, however, you're suggesting that anyone who is Muslim should be identified and somehow marked as such, can I suggest a little yellow star might be appropriate? That worked ever so well last time...
If, however, you're suggesting that anyone who is Muslim should be identified and somehow marked as such, can I suggest a little yellow star might be appropriate? That worked ever so well last time...
Hi All,
Firstly I believe that Israel use profiling on their flights and it seems to work. What specifications they use I dont know.
But profiling varies depending on what you want to achieve.
Someone on the radio just now said he worked for Customs and they use profiling.
Ports that are easily served by people from Holland were targetted for drugs. He stated that a single Dutchman driving a car was more likely to be searched than two people driving a car or one Englishman driving a car.
He stated that if the profiling was correct then there should be no problem.
In the context of terrorists at present, then I am afraid to say that Muslims must be prime candidates. By the same token if you were profiling animal activists I doubt if you would look at Muslims, but a different type of people altogether.
Any one against reasonable measures in place to stop a plane from being blown up should think twice. Rgds Al
Firstly I believe that Israel use profiling on their flights and it seems to work. What specifications they use I dont know.
But profiling varies depending on what you want to achieve.
Someone on the radio just now said he worked for Customs and they use profiling.
Ports that are easily served by people from Holland were targetted for drugs. He stated that a single Dutchman driving a car was more likely to be searched than two people driving a car or one Englishman driving a car.
He stated that if the profiling was correct then there should be no problem.
In the context of terrorists at present, then I am afraid to say that Muslims must be prime candidates. By the same token if you were profiling animal activists I doubt if you would look at Muslims, but a different type of people altogether.
Any one against reasonable measures in place to stop a plane from being blown up should think twice. Rgds Al
Flip-flop
Actually, I don't think it's really crass to compare the treatment of Jews in 30s Germany and Muslims now.
In your original post, you said that it's more likely that a young Muslim man will blow up a plane compared to your wife or kids...well, say if that Muslim is like the bloke I used to work with, who's biggest crime was his poor taste in rap music?
The probability that he's going to blow up and plane is exactly the same as you...however, he will be treated as a potential criminal. As a society, we'll be saying, "We don't trust you...you will be treated differently and we don't care what you feel about this".
Beginning to sound more and more like 1930s Germany.
Actually, I don't think it's really crass to compare the treatment of Jews in 30s Germany and Muslims now.
In your original post, you said that it's more likely that a young Muslim man will blow up a plane compared to your wife or kids...well, say if that Muslim is like the bloke I used to work with, who's biggest crime was his poor taste in rap music?
The probability that he's going to blow up and plane is exactly the same as you...however, he will be treated as a potential criminal. As a society, we'll be saying, "We don't trust you...you will be treated differently and we don't care what you feel about this".
Beginning to sound more and more like 1930s Germany.
Ignoring the fact that I feel my first point - it's easily circumvented - is the most pertinant, how is it beside the point? It's the logical extension of what you've proposed, surely?
Your contention is that 'we simply stop and search ALL young Muslim like men travelling alone and subject them to rigorous searches at airports'.
You therefore have no problem with identifiying one section of society as the root cause of Terrorism. You've already tacitly said that is the case, so where's the problem with doing it properly and effieciently? Does it make you feel uncomfortable or something?
It's clear that not all asians are Muslims, and not all Muslims are asian. (Let's gloss over the fact that most Muslims aren't terrorists, that inconvenient fact only gets in the way, doesn't it?) In the interests of efficiency and producing a better-targeted search, we can get all Muslims registered and identified.
Of course, in reality, you probably wouldn't want to do it using a yellow star - people might actually wake up to the implications then.
Your contention is that 'we simply stop and search ALL young Muslim like men travelling alone and subject them to rigorous searches at airports'.
You therefore have no problem with identifiying one section of society as the root cause of Terrorism. You've already tacitly said that is the case, so where's the problem with doing it properly and effieciently? Does it make you feel uncomfortable or something?
It's clear that not all asians are Muslims, and not all Muslims are asian. (Let's gloss over the fact that most Muslims aren't terrorists, that inconvenient fact only gets in the way, doesn't it?) In the interests of efficiency and producing a better-targeted search, we can get all Muslims registered and identified.
Of course, in reality, you probably wouldn't want to do it using a yellow star - people might actually wake up to the implications then.
Profiling would only work to a certain degree, but at the end of the day You can't tell if a person is a terorist by the way they look!
The whole method of air travel needs re-inventing with 100% checks on all travellers. If this lengthens the time between arrival at the airport to take-off then so be it. If this reduces the daily passenger throughput at airports then so be it. If this increases the cost of air travel then so be it. Lets face it some people you see going to Spain should'nt be allowed out of their own housing estate let alone representing the UK abroad.
The whole method of air travel needs re-inventing with 100% checks on all travellers. If this lengthens the time between arrival at the airport to take-off then so be it. If this reduces the daily passenger throughput at airports then so be it. If this increases the cost of air travel then so be it. Lets face it some people you see going to Spain should'nt be allowed out of their own housing estate let alone representing the UK abroad.
One further point that I think we've all ignored...if you were a suicide bomber and you couldn't attack airports/planes, wouldn't you simply switch to other *softer* forms of public transport?
Yes, we could introduce profiling and sniffer technology at airports, but what about underground trains, buses, football stadia?
Yes, we could introduce profiling and sniffer technology at airports, but what about underground trains, buses, football stadia?
Not too sure how you could profile all young Muslim men.... What happens if they are clean shaven, wear an England replica football top and a burberry hat?? & what about one of those arrested who turns out to be a white boy whose father is an ex tory councillor .......... How on earth would 'profile' that?
You can be white born and bred but what is the differential between showing your preferred born into or adopted religion short of a tattoo on your forehead?
I am 55 years old and disabled and if I suddenly chose a bent religious path and decided to make a point by taking my life and as many other innocent people that I could with me, who is going to look at a 55 year old disabled bint and think she was safe and not search her?
Sorry but for the safety of everybody (irrespective of colour or creed or age denomination or or nationality) should some not be searched? No - we all need to be searched, no matter how innocent we all are. It's time consuming and frustrating but you and your children would travel safe knowing everybody else was undergoing a search and those you were travelling with were deemed to be safe to be in their company. I would not harm a fly but would be happy to undergo the stict scrutiny at present in place so that I could look my fellow passengers in the eye and we would all feel safe.
I am 55 years old and disabled and if I suddenly chose a bent religious path and decided to make a point by taking my life and as many other innocent people that I could with me, who is going to look at a 55 year old disabled bint and think she was safe and not search her?
Sorry but for the safety of everybody (irrespective of colour or creed or age denomination or or nationality) should some not be searched? No - we all need to be searched, no matter how innocent we all are. It's time consuming and frustrating but you and your children would travel safe knowing everybody else was undergoing a search and those you were travelling with were deemed to be safe to be in their company. I would not harm a fly but would be happy to undergo the stict scrutiny at present in place so that I could look my fellow passengers in the eye and we would all feel safe.
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