Afghanistan

[anotheoldgit]

Whatever is happening in Afghanistan? Apart from the news of the increasing number of lives that are being lost in this god forsaken country we hear little else.
Yes I know we have ex-military pundits pontificating on about what our troops need in equiptment etc. to stand a chance to combat this war, which I believe cannot be won. Some questions that never seem to be asked are:-
1/ Have we any fighter bomber aircraft out there?
2/ Why do we not hear of any American troops, or have they withdrawn and left us holding the baby?
3/ If we are leading a NATO force who are these other troops and in what numbers?
4/ If as they say "if we come out now it will cause a rise in the ammount of drugs entering this country", why do we use ground troops? Why not protect these troops by not exposing them in close combat with the Taliban?
And bring in the airforces ( if any are out there) to keep the Taliban under control and destroy these poppy fields from the air, after all they have no airforce to respond.

[jake-the-peg]

The problem comes from starting a second conflict (Iraq) when you're still fighting a first (Afghanistan)

Something any decent commander in chief ought to realise!

[steve208]

Hi there i am able to answer part of your question regarding the make up of the force and to would advise you to vist it this page i have found on the nato website:

http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2006/p06-096e.htm

I am not sure as to the number of aircraft out there as a whole as it is somewhat misleading to just give UK aircraft details. This is a NATO mission and therefore UK commanders will be able to draw upon a wide variety of airbourne assests. But in terms of attack options the UK assets consist of 6 appache gunships and 6 harrier GR9 ground attack aircraft.

I am led to believe that american troops do operate in the country but just not in Helmand province which is currently under British command (therefore getting more media coverage).

The overall NATO force comprises of over 18,500 personnel but i doubt all these will be based in Helmand province. It is most likley that UK troops will operate with those from the neatherland, Belgium, Australia, and Canada.

Primarly these troops will have in common the same level of high trainning and also there will be an amount of ease to operating with these countries as the UK forces reguarly train with them. Furthermore 42 and 45 commando units of the royal marines will be deploying to afganistan soon and they have trianed extensivly with many other NATO forces.

Your comment regarding the use of air power to "wipe out the drugs"....well whilst i do believe you are not wanting us to carpet bomb them i would have to say that even using persision guided missiles will often not always do the job.

In addition usign air assets too much dies tend to alienate the local population and there is in the end no substitute for having troops on the ground to mix with the locals and really use their eyes so clear identification can be mad

[anotheoldgit]

Thanks for the input steve208. But I am afraid that after reading the NATO web site you have been brain washed some what.
I am convinced that we (the British) are once again taking the brunt of things. Regarding bombing the poppy fields I think any incendiary type of bombs would do the job nicely. As for alienating the local population, I think they are pretty well alienated now, that is why we are increasingly losing our brave Service Men & Womenout there.
I do not wish to appear rude steve but would you like to be out there risking your life for these people. Just an hypothetical point, if you were to grow a few plants of cannabis in your greenhouse I don't think our police would bother about alienating you, when they destroyed the crop and carried you off to the "Cop Shop".

[steve208]

Well yes i am sure that the police would not think about throwing the book at me for growing cannabis. But this would be a domestic issue in both senses of the word, and therefore I consider that it is less important how something like this is dealt with in one's own country.

I can see why you may think i have been "brainwashed" by NATO by i deny that, i provided the links so as to gain more information, though i must admit that solid information on numbers of aircraft etc is hard to come by.

I am by no means in agreement with NATO in all aspects of what they do but when visiting the NATO HQ I saw at first hand the details of plans to bring about a more stable and democratic Afganistan.

Whilst I do think the burden does rest too much on UK troops it would seem unlikley that other nations will be able to commit much more than they already do. Hypothetically i may concider risking my life for these people worth while. But whilst i may support the way NATO is carrying out it's mission it does not mean to say that i agree that the mission is needed. Put simply we are there now so should demonstrate that we can do the job in a civil and democratic manor, that means not using munitions such as incendueries or cluster bombs which would break many international agreements.

I do think that it was somewhat unwise to go into afganistan and very much oppose the way Bush and Blair went after the roots of 9/11 using force. We as the west should demonstrate that force is a last resort and respect the international institutions set up to govern the use of force such as the UN. Until such time as greater respect for the UN is shown before using force as a last resort then the west will continue to create more resentment in those who fight against western values.

[steve208]

Western politicians must learn that it is not about a fight to the death of one ideology like in the cold war, it is about understanding the reasons behind the anger of others and accomodating this, only attacking when ideas can truley be called radical.

[onetwothree]

The problem with the war in Afganhistan is that we do not have the troops to do the job, and the troops that are there need better equipment and they need it now not next year, i have a close family member going over there with a commando unit, he was one of the first to go there when marines first got of the c-130 in 2001, i actually saw him on the telly. We need at least 2000 more combat troops, and good ones that know what they are doing, and how to work with other nations troops