Veils and Integration..

[dummkopf]

I thought to myself with this latest problem of the veil what a great opportunity for the muslim council to say - ""OK girls, stop wearing the veil ,stick to the headscarf if necessary ,as the full veil does offend/intimidate some people here in the UK"" . What a move towards better understanding that would be !

[sandyg2244]

[This answer has been edited]

[juddlinski]

You've known this for 15 years? So what happened 15 years ago? Did you read Mein Kampf?

[juddlinski]

oh, and keep on fighting against the jihab. Whatever you think that is.

[Big Al1st]

Hi Keyvan, Thanks for the info regarding Iranian Woman.
It made me think! They dont like wearing scarves and veils but they are told to. Here they wear the clothing but they do not have to.

Maybe we should make it a ruling over here that they have to wear veils, and see whether they take them off.

Used to go to Abadan twice a year along time ago. Expect evrything has changed now. Take care Al

[keyvan]

You're welcome Al!
My experience about all this came about purely from an observation I had whilst I recently visited Iran.
I guess it has to do with the human pschychology. If you ask someone to do something (in this case wear veils, hijab, etc...) and they know consciously that this goes against their own sets of beliefs/ past they will carry on doing what they used to do. i.e. not wearing them/ or wear them reluctantly.
As to the point concerning wearing veils in a free society like UK there has to be a leverage for these women to discard their veils otherwise they will not give it up. As to what that leverage should be it's entirely dependant on how strong their sets of beliefs are/ or their way of thinking/ upbringing. That's why I think this should be a matter of choice and not make it a ruling.

[jno]

women wear veils for religious reasons and people shouldn't be ordered to give up religious observance. That's the sort of thing the Soviet Union did. (Churches are now making a big comeback in Russia.)

But it does depend on cultural circumstance too: some sects are stricter than others, some countries are stricter than others. It's not actually in the Koran. But funnily enough it is in the Bible; and many Jews also observe it (women wear wigs so only their husbands can see their real hair).

[jno]

as for sterilising then, sandy, I think you'll find Hitler had similar ideas.

[trish1234567]

Oh for just one day when we won't hear the word 'muslim' on our television sets.

I also don't care what the women wear, although we know it is not their own choice, but primarily their husbands' choice.

There are several factors why we dislike the covering of faces here.

(1) I saw a young child who was frightened and crying when he saw 2 women dress all in black with only their eyes showings towering above him in a shopping mall (2) how does one know it is actually a woman? (3) could a person dressed as such not have a hidden gun - doesn't a bank robber wear a mask over his head (4) he or she could be a suicide bomber (5) motorbike couriers have to remove their helmets on entering buildings (6) a point has been made that we 'overcame' the sikhs' turbans when becoming policemen, I don't think a hidden face can be overcome!........I could go on ....................

As another ABER says, would they tolerate our ways in their country?

[juddlinski]

TRISH, I don�t wish to be rude but do you honestly believe the rubbish you�re writing?

�we know it is not their own choice but primarily their husbands choice.�

How do you know that? How many have you asked?

(1) I saw a young child who was frightened and crying when he saw 2 women dress all in black with only their eyes showings towering above him in a shopping mall

Poor child, but is that any reason to ban veils? What about educating the child as to different cultures?


(2) how does one know it is actually a woman?

Without subjecting them to a sex test, you can�t. This goes for the rest of the population though, so I don�t see what you�re trying to say


(3) could a person dressed as such not have a hidden gun - doesn't a bank robber wear a mask over his head

Anyone can have a hidden gun. I fail to see the advantage that wearing a veil would have when you�re carrying a concealed weapon

(4) he or she could be a suicide bomber

you�re not embarassed even slighlty?

(5) motorbike couriers have to remove their helmets on entering buildings

Motorbike couriers tend to wear their helmets for safety rather than religious reasons

(6) a point has been made that we 'overcame' the sikhs' turbans when becoming policemen, I don't think a hidden face can be overcome!

How many policewomen have you see with veils? None, right?


��I could go on��

You already are

ABER says, would they tolerate our ways in their country?

[dummkopf]

juddlinske you really are beginning to **** me off. For goodness sake think of something relevent or original to say instead of copying everone else's words and adding a nasty comment !

[Big Al1st]

Hi, I would like to expand more on something I said earlier.
I have spent many years in Arab Countries and the veils never bothered me, and truthfully they dont now except:-
Various factions are making me go slightly against what I believe and that is everyone to their own. But the radical priests, alot of young muslims and the PC people are slowly driving a wedge between the two societies, and the issues about the veil is a prime example. 15 years ago no-one would have bothered but the factions mentioned are getting peoples' backs up and conseqently EVERYONE is getting less tolerant of each other.
It is possibly another example of what has happened through the years, that religion has caused more problems than any thing else.
I do really feel sorry for alot of hard working decent moslem families who, in some instances, may take the flak from the radicals and so called Do Gooders. Maybe it is time that they stood up and opposed the people within their own culture who are making life difficult for them.

Juddlinski, You called me a bigot. After reading your threads I am not sure what to call you!

[Big Al1st]

Hi Dummkopf, Not sure whether to thank you for starting such an interesting discussion, or kick you for allowing myself to get involved. lol Take care

[whiffey]

Dear old Britain, comfy armchairs, Sharia here we come.

Well, who to vote for now ? Straw, then Blair, now Brown have aligned with evil.

We might need to put up Sharia candidates to complete the process. Either that or wake up.

[Gef]

Simple (probably too simple) answer. Why all the fuss? Anyone can wear whatever they want. However, at banks, airports etc just put up signs saying that only those showing their full face are allowed to enter. If you don't like it tough - go away!

[Doggy2]

Oh lord save my good old comfi armchair from all these evil muslims. Sharia laws is on its way and the aliens are here to destroy me.
If I am not earning enough money it's because of them. If I am having a sh!tty day at work it's because of them, if I am having a period it's because of them... or hang on let's blame everything on muslims whilst at it. Jews have had their fair share of bashing in the past. It's time now to take it on muslims. Let's have a concentration camp and burn them all to hell.
Hang on! I knew I should have taken on my sleeping tablets. Either that or I watch too many sci-fi movies.

[dummkopf]

There have been some interesting points on this topic since Monday, about rights etc. some people have said they should be able to wear what they want. Others have said as they're living in UK they should adopt western ways . There is no answer really, but I still think it would be a step in the right direction, a gesture if you like, if the women dressed appropriately for this country, and no, I don't mean mini skirts !!

[whiffey]

Doggy2, which of the major parties accurately represents your feelings ? And how will you vote to gain Nirvana ?

I am actually completely fascinated by it.

Can I ask as a byline if you hate Bush and Blair (from the armchair of course) ?

Do you in 2006 condone the bombing of Dresden in WWII ?

[jump79]

whiffey, stop trying to bring up Dresden -WW2 and link it with everything again and again, that was a long time ago, get over it.