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Support For Israel
Should our government do more to support the state of Israel?
I believe they should
I believe they should
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fender62,
The place ticked along nicely for four centuries under the Ottoman Empire. Then Turkey joined the first World war on the wrong side and Palastine along with the rest of Turkey's Empire (Iraq, Iran, Cyprus, Libya etc) became the spoils of war for the British to administer.
Things have been downhill in those places ever since.
The place ticked along nicely for four centuries under the Ottoman Empire. Then Turkey joined the first World war on the wrong side and Palastine along with the rest of Turkey's Empire (Iraq, Iran, Cyprus, Libya etc) became the spoils of war for the British to administer.
Things have been downhill in those places ever since.
I always find it somewhat amusing to see America harpooned as the instigator and continued supporter of the Israeli government when history clearly shows Britain as the original source of the Jewish state. Further, the history of Jewish immigration to the area goes back several hundreds of years (not mentioning Biblically supported history of the Hebrew right of ownership).
The Sykes-Picot Agreement, mandated by the League of Nations following WWI allocated the area surrounding the Jordan River to Great Britain, which then, divided the desert into two seperate administrative areas, West of the Jordan and East of the Jordan. The area west of the Jordan comprised roughly 25% of the land with the remainder going to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan. Ironically, Trans-Jordan was given to a non-"Palestinian" Arab Emir Abdullah to administer in the behalf of the very small Arab population. Although the Jews immediately agreed to the deal the Arabs were already having none of it. In 1929 the Hebron attacks resulted in numerous Jewish deaths with many more attacks to follow... so many that the British government tossed the problem over the fence to the United Nations in 1947, who in turn established the nation of Israel in 1948. The rest, as they say, is history. But isn't it even a little interesting that the Arab countries never helped their brothers establish a viable "Palestine" out of the remaining 75% of the British protectorate? By U.N. estimates there were only around, at max, 400,000 Arabs living in the 75% of the mandated lands for them. Yet all of their energies, supported by Saudia Arabia and others, were to destroy Israel. The "Palestinian Arabs" have been tragically used for politcal purposes by any and all of their Arab overlords for nearly 100 years.
Contd.
The Sykes-Picot Agreement, mandated by the League of Nations following WWI allocated the area surrounding the Jordan River to Great Britain, which then, divided the desert into two seperate administrative areas, West of the Jordan and East of the Jordan. The area west of the Jordan comprised roughly 25% of the land with the remainder going to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan. Ironically, Trans-Jordan was given to a non-"Palestinian" Arab Emir Abdullah to administer in the behalf of the very small Arab population. Although the Jews immediately agreed to the deal the Arabs were already having none of it. In 1929 the Hebron attacks resulted in numerous Jewish deaths with many more attacks to follow... so many that the British government tossed the problem over the fence to the United Nations in 1947, who in turn established the nation of Israel in 1948. The rest, as they say, is history. But isn't it even a little interesting that the Arab countries never helped their brothers establish a viable "Palestine" out of the remaining 75% of the British protectorate? By U.N. estimates there were only around, at max, 400,000 Arabs living in the 75% of the mandated lands for them. Yet all of their energies, supported by Saudia Arabia and others, were to destroy Israel. The "Palestinian Arabs" have been tragically used for politcal purposes by any and all of their Arab overlords for nearly 100 years.
Contd.
Contd.
What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." (Source for this information: "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Middle East Conflict"
by Mitchell Bard)
By the way, the U.S. supplied no weapons to Israel to defend themselves from the 5 Arab countries who were determined to destroy the in the 1948 war, yt Israel prevailed. In fact, the U.S. supplied no weapons until 1962. Only until the 1973 Yom Kippur War (again, an attack by the Arab congolmerate) when the USSR airlifted tons of advanced weapons to the Arab countries did the U.S. begin routinely supporting Israel.
At maximum, the yearly outlay by the U.S. to Israel averages less the $3 billion with mandatory caps on what is used for militray purposes. The bulk of he remaining aid is actually in the form of high interest loans or loan guarantees. (The U.S. continues to aid the Palestinian refugees and would do more if one could sort out who the government is in Gaza). Latest figures from Perspective on Israel, U.S. House of Representatives indicates Israel has paid back all but $1.19 blillion in loans...
What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." (Source for this information: "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Middle East Conflict"
by Mitchell Bard)
By the way, the U.S. supplied no weapons to Israel to defend themselves from the 5 Arab countries who were determined to destroy the in the 1948 war, yt Israel prevailed. In fact, the U.S. supplied no weapons until 1962. Only until the 1973 Yom Kippur War (again, an attack by the Arab congolmerate) when the USSR airlifted tons of advanced weapons to the Arab countries did the U.S. begin routinely supporting Israel.
At maximum, the yearly outlay by the U.S. to Israel averages less the $3 billion with mandatory caps on what is used for militray purposes. The bulk of he remaining aid is actually in the form of high interest loans or loan guarantees. (The U.S. continues to aid the Palestinian refugees and would do more if one could sort out who the government is in Gaza). Latest figures from Perspective on Israel, U.S. House of Representatives indicates Israel has paid back all but $1.19 blillion in loans...
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Noxlumos - Your son, covering the Lebanon war, must have seen some horrific sights. It was bad enough seeing it on TV news.
But Israel attacked either military targets, or those targets that could have been logistically useful to Hizbollah, roads and bridges etc. Yes, civilians were caught up in it, sadly, but compare this to the fact that every single Katyusha rocket fired by Hizbollah was deliberately fired with the express aim of killing civilians. There's a major difference.
But Israel attacked either military targets, or those targets that could have been logistically useful to Hizbollah, roads and bridges etc. Yes, civilians were caught up in it, sadly, but compare this to the fact that every single Katyusha rocket fired by Hizbollah was deliberately fired with the express aim of killing civilians. There's a major difference.
Israel is embedded in an area where its neighbours are sworn to its destruction. How are they to negotiate with states that want them destroyed?
Benyamin Netanyahu, ex prime minister of Israel, quotes a Holocaust survivor, who when asked, what lesson he had learned from the Holocaust, said, "The next time somebody says he wants to kill you .... believe him, and stop him."
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/ujc.asp
Benyamin Netanyahu, ex prime minister of Israel, quotes a Holocaust survivor, who when asked, what lesson he had learned from the Holocaust, said, "The next time somebody says he wants to kill you .... believe him, and stop him."
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/ujc.asp
To expand on my previous answer- I won't claim to be an expert in this area, but Israel, rather like recent US governments, doesn't seem to understand any form of foreign policy apart from sending in the tanks and bombers every time it or its ideology is challenged- the "lobster approach", if you will. The response to the Hezbollah kidnappings was a case in point- why didn't they simply send in some special forces to retrieve the troops, rather than starting a whole war? It benefited no-one except Hezbollah, who not only proved their strength to the world in resisting a major military force but also their organisation when clearing up the mess afterwards in Lebanon (admittedly only amongst supporters, but hey, it was more effecient than the New Orleans debacle)- which was fantastic PR for them.
To summarise, Israel will only gain the respect of the international community when it starts to think about problems as opposed to bombing them. Yes, they've been bombed a fair bit back, but all I'm asking at any rate is for some sanity.
To summarise, Israel will only gain the respect of the international community when it starts to think about problems as opposed to bombing them. Yes, they've been bombed a fair bit back, but all I'm asking at any rate is for some sanity.
So Theland, presumeably because they issued a warning regarding the King David Hotels etc, you're quite cool with the IRA bombings where they issued a warning then too?
I suspect not.
If you do not negociate with states that want your destruction, you have to have a war, it's as simple as that. It may be after you negociate and it fails you STILL have to have a war, I'm not saying Israel should not be able to protect itself, but it's got to be the very,very, very last resort, or we are all going backwards.
As for Israel hitting only military targets, that's laughable.
I suspect not.
If you do not negociate with states that want your destruction, you have to have a war, it's as simple as that. It may be after you negociate and it fails you STILL have to have a war, I'm not saying Israel should not be able to protect itself, but it's got to be the very,very, very last resort, or we are all going backwards.
As for Israel hitting only military targets, that's laughable.
The man in the Good Samaritan tale was genuinely weak and in need of help- which is hardly Israel. It had the right to defend itself in 1948 and 1967, but not to take vast chunks of Palestinian territory. That's not self-defence.
TheLand, you should really stop portraying Israel as the victimised innocent- because both sides are to blame here. And no credence, even in a playground, is given to the "he started it" excuse.
TheLand, you should really stop portraying Israel as the victimised innocent- because both sides are to blame here. And no credence, even in a playground, is given to the "he started it" excuse.
Why do we believe the big lie, "Palestinian Land"?
There has never been a country there called Palestine. From 1948 to 1966 the West Bank was in Arab hands, why didn't they form a state then when they had it? No! They want it all. Israel know that they want it all, it's us who have not cottoned on yet.
There has never been a country there called Palestine. From 1948 to 1966 the West Bank was in Arab hands, why didn't they form a state then when they had it? No! They want it all. Israel know that they want it all, it's us who have not cottoned on yet.
Ctrack - As far as Israel being the victimised innocent. Well, look no further than their unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. Forcibly removing Jews who had been born in Gush Katif, expelled by the Israeli Defence Force. Why? Because if only sovereignty had changed hands, those Jews would have been massacred by the Palestinians. So, Israel ethnically cleansed its own people from the land. What thanks did they get? Kassam rockets raining down on Sderot and Ashkelon, launched from Gaza. What crime did Israel commit to deserve this?
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