university applications

[fairkatrina]

Is anyone else sick of this drive to get the working classes into higher education at the expense of the middle classes? I have no problem with anyone carrying on with education who wants to learn, but what's with the desperation to get people into university when they would probably be better off going straight into employment?

[johnny37]

I agree. Sorry grads. I know you have to put in a lot of effort (when not in the sudent bar!). I dont mean to demean your efforts but just try and get a job using a degree in art and many of the other subjects now on offer. I dont believe the stats which say graduates earn more. On the whole most graduates end up doing jobs which do not need a degree and they should have started at 16 or 18. Most employers are now looking for a 2/1 at least with good A levels, unless you go into something like retail on �18K pa. You also have to pay off a massive loan which you could do without.

[crete]

i know working class people going to further education its not good enough, before you know it they will be appearing on university challenge. get them down the mines or sweeping chimneys where they belong ,

[suffragette]

While we're at it, let's take away their right to vote as well, particularly as they never vote for the correct party, anyway. Pimms anyone?

[Loosehead]

Positive discrimination is always flawed, end of.

[fairkatrina]

And calm people. I have nothing against people of any class going to university - if there is a purpose to it. The present government are making it more lucrative for some people to do a worthless degree than to get a job and ultimately that's not helping anyone, particularly the middle classes, who often are planning to go to uni but can't afford it because all the grants are being given to lower class people. The government is creating a class war by punishing one class and over-rewarding another.

[kwicky]

You can have the best education going and have a first class degree with honours but unless you can converse on an equal level with your peers it is just wasted. Greater emphasis should be put on this!

[dummkopf]

What a bunch of bloody snobs !

[suffragette]

Have you never heard of irony, dummkopf?

[dummkopf]

Yes I have heard of irony, maybe I should have clarified my post in as much as 'bunch' excluded your and crete's posts and referred only to the 'question author' and the next post down who agreed, silly me but it would have made my post a little tiresome.......I promise to do better !

[joko]

surely the middle classes should be able to afford their own education, instead of taking money from people who genuinely need it.

also - what grants are these, that are given only to the lower classes and not the middle classes?

in fact, what grants?

it is student loans now, and they are available to anyone.

[fairkatrina]

Yes but anyone whose parents earn more than �20000 (combined) gets �3000 a year, enough to cover fees OR housing, whereas those whose parents earn less than that have their uni fees waived AND are entitled to more student loan, AND are entitled to university bursaries and grants. The problem with the middle classes affording to pay for the cost of university with only �3000 p.a. help is that this is the class most heavily taxed (relatively speaking). As a result they are the class who struggle most to meet the soaring costs of sending a child to university.

[scruffscat]

Sorry what year is this...?

[alijangra]

Why do you care? I have sacrificed a hell of a lot to return to university BECAUSE I WANT TO!! **** knows what class I am? Any idea?

[Le Chat]

I think the middle class maybe (for the purpose of this post) anyone who goes to university and is being financed by their parents.
When university was "free" it was open to anyone, but generally (and there were many exceptions) working class people tended to go straight into employment. I don't know why, maybe it was considered 'not for them' in that era.
I must admit, as a parent I would find financing my sons university places difficult, as we are above the threshold, but it would makes us struggle.

[dot.hawkes]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,

[saxy_jag]

Anyone, no matter how wealthy or otherwise their background, has a right to apply and compete for a university place if they have the necessary intellectual capacity and evidence of that.

However, they (and their parents) shouldn't feel pressured into going just for the sake of a 'good education', which is what I could see happening if it became 'the norm'. A university education should remain something that people have to work hard for and work hard at, not something to which everyone has an automatic right. Otherwise there'd be no value in it.

I come from a very working-class background - my parents were both factory workers - and didn't have any ambitions towards uni when I was younger, even though I'd had a grammar school education. I didn't actually go until I was 36, when Ifelt ready. My own kids knew I would support them if they wanted to go, but in the end neither of them did. They both seem to have made a fair success of their lives despite that.

[Mammar]

I think I'm in severe danger of getting of getting a verbal kick in the face for my views here but *** it, why not?
I truly don't think the thought behind this "drive" is to penalise the "middle" (define middle) class.
I think it is to get young adults out there who come from lower-income families not to think that they have to go into employment straight after A levels because there are no other options available to them. Brains are not just doled out to the middle and upper classes. Some choose to work and climb the ladder that way. Some choose other options such as training for qualifications "on the job" as one of my daughters did. No problems with that - they are individuals and should choose whatever is right for them.
But some think that University is just for "posh" people and it's not. They are the ones that need to know that it's for everybody who wants it, low income or not.
I wouldn't dream of "pushing" anybody there but would hate to think that someone missed achieving their full potential because they didn't think they were "the right sort" to go to Uni. If this "drive" helps recruit the teachers, doctors and nurses we need for this country, I'm all for it.

[Le Chat]

Mammar. Your answer is clear, concise and damn fine! I don't think you will get the abuse you are expecting, as your answer is intelligent and truthful.

[joko]

ditto le chat