What is it with the Middle East?

[bigmalc]

Another day another report of senseless violence in the Middle East.

Is this conflict resolveable whilst Religion is around to mess everything up? Jews vs Muslims vs Muslims vs Christians vs blah, blah, blah.....

Honestly, who wants to live life hating other people just because they are different? Someone has to take the lead sooner or later and just stop and say 'Can't we at least try and work something out?'

It's the same old story, someone attacks someone retaliates, they retaliate etc.

I can't believe that the Palestinians haven't realised that if they take the moral high ground and protest peacefully, then the international community would give them full support!!? People who attack unarmed civilians always lose.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6 676291.stm

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, the middle east has and always will be like this.
They need to let NATO or the UN take control of the area and show zero tolerance.
If that fails then just let George and Gordon sort it out...

[bigmalc]

That's exactly what I don't want to express MrBen.

My point is that violence reaction these situations only perpetuates the problem. Just look at the mess in Iraq. Are you seriously suggesting that starting another conflict will resolve the issue?

I just think it's sad that in a time where we have witnessed the bloodiest 100 years in our history as a species we can't think of other ways to resolve our problems and our first solution is always to attack.

[Hammer Head]

Get used to it, because when our Muslim friends really get a foothold in this country the same will happen here because whilst Britons are tolerant people, they clearly are not.

Remember, you read it here first!

You have been warned.

[Lonnie]

HammerHead is so right, but in the end, its us Humans, if ever we can collectively live in peace, then????.

No chance, since we first evolved we've been killing each other, and we'll still be at it at the end of time.

[brionon]

Religion ,perhaps ?

[bigmalc]

Wait a minute, 'The moral high ground is the domain of powerful people'?

That's bullsh!t! The moral high ground is the domain of anyone who is willing to take it.

Honestly, wahabi Islam is not going to take hold here, stop being so paranoid! The Muslim population of Britain is fewer than 10% and the vast majority of those who do practice are honest and wonderful people. I have no time for people who say 'I'm tolerant but those people aren't!' it just isn't a coherent argument. That is the kind of attitude that perpetuates the violence in the Middle East.

[jno]

the Palestinians were peaceful enough for many years. It got them nowhere. So they've taken to violence. Maybe they learned this from the Jews - not all Jews, just extremist Zionists - who used terrorism to drive the British out of Palestine in the first place. And I don't know if they care about getting the world's support; they recognise that the USA will support Israel whatever it does and however violent it is.

But religion isn't the problem. Many Palestinians are Christians. And there are plenty of Jewish sects, some of which believe setting up the state of Israel was morally wrong.

But if you want someone to take the lead in peace... well, it would have to be the people in power, wouldn't it; the ones being oppressed have no ability to set the agenda. And the Israelis have no intention of living in peace with the Palestinians unless they are first rendered utterly powerless. So I don't think it's going to happen.

[Theland]

All power to the Israelis then. They are at the forefront of OUR battle for survival against the muslim nations, and the terrorists that they sponsor.

[NJOK]

Religion is no more the driving force in this than it was in Northern Ireland.

But you're right. The Palestinians are shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. From an objective point of view, it's hard to see how the international community could possibly support Israel on this issue - and it's only the votes of Jewish Americans that are propping up America's support of Israel. But by murdering Israeli civilians (albeit in retaliation), the Palestinians are harming their own cause.

Still, it's easy for us to say. When you've lost your home, your livelihood and you've seen family members die, it can't be easy to stand aside and wait for the UN to step in.

[maxximus]

yes, it's the same old story, someone says someone attacked them giving them the right to attack. thereby forcing the accused to retaliate or be killed, strange how that works. it would seem someone is trying to destabilize the country of lebanon (again) but that is for another thread. your link gives a particular view on fatah al-islam as to who they represent, it also states that other palestinian groups have distanced themselves from them. here is another link with related articles that paints a different picture. that frankly to me, makes a little more sense. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/artic le17726.htm theland, they might be at the forefront of your imaginary battle for survival, but please speak for yourself. with 655,000 dead iraqi's, many thousands women and children. i'm crystal clear on who the ( terrorists ) are.

[Theland]

... then I suggest you polish your crystal. It must be a little blurred. 9/11, 7/7, Bali, Madrid, the list goes on and on and on. Who did you say were the terrorists?
What they all have in common is a deep rooted anti semitism and an ambition to see the destruction of Israel, and the West.
Their holy book commands the violence, they obey, there is no reasoning with them. They are more fascist than Hitler ever was. As Benyamin Netanyahu said, "It is 1938 again, Iran is Germany, and Iran is getting the bomb." Don't you see, it is an international brotherhood of Islamofascists bent on our destruction, and Israel is first in line. Imaginary? Don't think so.

[maxximus]

here's one, your quoting him, one of your hero's perhaps?http://www.salon.com/news/1997/10/07news.html

[jno]

Theland, I hope you don't cut your hair (or shave), have tattoos, have any physical defects (like poor sight) at all, or do any of the other things that Leviticus condemns like homosexuality. If you do cut your hair, I shall have to pity you.

some other posers from the Bible (not compiled by me):

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

[jno]

just to add to that the reason why I posted it (because it might equally apply to the other thread currently running about homosexuality): we should be careful about who is 'civilised' and who is not, who hates other religions and who does not. I don't find much difference between these Middle Eastern religions, and indeed historically they are very close. I think religion is at best a pretext for Israel's problems; culture and power are more like the real issues. If you throw someone off his land you can expect him to be annoyed.

[Lonnie]

Theland,
Why not start another thread, about Biblical Predictions, reckon you'd get a lot of interes on that, and if you did, i'd answer your question then.

[ruby27]

It seems to me that the issues; whether dressed up in religion are still fundamentally about power and ownership (my early Marxist views being exposed, sorry for being so transparent). Economic power at is most basic level is about food and shelter, to take over someone else�s food you need an excuse if you are reluctant to put it down to need or greed only.
Designing and highlighting differences has always been a useful stratagem for excusing the behavior of one group dominating the other, Christianity sees women different to men and therefore needing different more controlling rules, an exercise in power. The Muslims and Jews we have had in the west programmes of extermination against both of these religions, eek they were looking too powerful compared to ourselves (meaning loosely Christians in the West). � Certainly Christians have been far more successful in their killing than the recent influx of Muslims killing Jews or nominally Christians (see the history of Slavery for another example of difference and the justification for violence). Then add a big dose of fear factor that those others be Muslims/Polish now, Irish previously, Polish again, Huguenots, Gypsies through out the ages, are coming to take away my food, shelter etc. Same old same old, still at least we debate it now and at times we do try and negotiate rather than use brute force when we do not agree with each (invasion of Iraq except)

[Theland]

Israel has one sixth of a percent of the land that the Arab countries have collectively between them. Israel does not have an abundance of water, (the river Jordan is a stream compared to others in the region, eg Euphrates). Israel has no oil or coal or any other mineral wealth of any significance - just the covenanted Land, that they bought up and built up from desert and malarial swamp, and made it blossom. So why do the Arabs want it? They won't even give citizenship to the refugees that have lived in their countries for forty years and more?