News1 min ago
Anti terrorism 'stop and quiz'
The government's considering giving stop and quiz powers to the police in order to help the fight against terrorism.
I find this quite worrying and think it would probably end up being counter productive. What do you think?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6695685.stm
I find this quite worrying and think it would probably end up being counter productive. What do you think?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6695685.stm
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dear vic you are indeed one-eyed - in a Muslim Council Of Great Britain kind of way. It is not in the police's interests to stop and search people they're not suspicious of, so why would they do that? As NikkiB indicated earlier, if you've got nothing to hide why object to being searched? The police don't stop and search someone because they're racist (which is what you seem to think); they do it because they're suspicious of that person. You prevent the police from doing work which is intended to help make this country a safe place, and you should be penalised accordingly. All anyone living in Britain should be interested in is making this nation safe.
craigiep - of course the police aren't racist. - oh wait a minute.....
Do you think Mr Wolfgang (heckler at the labour party conference) was a terrorist (he was arrested under anti terror laws)
Do you think Brian Haw (peace protester) should have been arrested under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act.
The point is that the police are getting too powerful and are using draconian laws to do what they want.
And then of course they can just say "we are fighting a war on Terror" and then everyone says, oh, that's okay then.
Do you think Mr Wolfgang (heckler at the labour party conference) was a terrorist (he was arrested under anti terror laws)
Do you think Brian Haw (peace protester) should have been arrested under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act.
The point is that the police are getting too powerful and are using draconian laws to do what they want.
And then of course they can just say "we are fighting a war on Terror" and then everyone says, oh, that's okay then.
dear vic you are indeed one-eyed - in a Muslim Council Of Great Britain kind of way.
This did make me laugh. It reminds me of a comment of Adam West's in Family Guy - 'You're not even part of these United States. Which would make you... a communist!'
The police don't stop and search someone because they're racist (which is what you seem to think
The police make judgements whether to stop & search mostly on a purely visual basis - thus, even if racism itself isn't taking place, a certain amount of racial profiling does go on. That's what people (quite reasonably) object to.
By the way - you may want to look up the McPherson inquiry.
You prevent the police from doing work which is intended to help make this country a safe place,
I have yet to see any evidence that the sterling work done by the police which discovered/prevented other recent planned attacks (such as the one last year) has anything to do with the anti-terror powers they've been granted.
This did make me laugh. It reminds me of a comment of Adam West's in Family Guy - 'You're not even part of these United States. Which would make you... a communist!'
The police don't stop and search someone because they're racist (which is what you seem to think
The police make judgements whether to stop & search mostly on a purely visual basis - thus, even if racism itself isn't taking place, a certain amount of racial profiling does go on. That's what people (quite reasonably) object to.
By the way - you may want to look up the McPherson inquiry.
You prevent the police from doing work which is intended to help make this country a safe place,
I have yet to see any evidence that the sterling work done by the police which discovered/prevented other recent planned attacks (such as the one last year) has anything to do with the anti-terror powers they've been granted.
craigep
Why might any one object to be stopped and questioned if innocent
Please! Might it be because the experience is embarrassing, frightening and a waste of time? On the occasions I have been stopped by the police I was innocent of any crime but I did feel frightened and very embarrassed as it was in public. If I had been subject to this frequently I am sure I would have added anger and resentment as well. Anger, resentment and being young and you are going to be vulnerable to any cause which seems sympathetic.
Shouldn�t be trying to prevent young Muslims from becoming radicalized, rather than behave in ways that seem certain to increase the chance?
Why might any one object to be stopped and questioned if innocent
Please! Might it be because the experience is embarrassing, frightening and a waste of time? On the occasions I have been stopped by the police I was innocent of any crime but I did feel frightened and very embarrassed as it was in public. If I had been subject to this frequently I am sure I would have added anger and resentment as well. Anger, resentment and being young and you are going to be vulnerable to any cause which seems sympathetic.
Shouldn�t be trying to prevent young Muslims from becoming radicalized, rather than behave in ways that seem certain to increase the chance?
ruby27, in my life I've known thousands of people but not one has ever told me they've been stopped and searched. So why do you think it has happened to you on more than one occasion? The police aren't going to waste their time and energy doing that to people they're not suspicious of. You should put aside your pathetic feelings of discomfort in favour of realising you're being stopped and searched in the interests of national security.
craigiep
Congratulations on knowing so many people
I have checked most post and it doesn't say stopped and searched, just stopped
On one occasion I was stopped because allegedly I was driving a car similar to one that had been stolen in the area. I had to get out the car and speak to the police officer whilst people who would have known me drove past. On the other occasion I was stopped and asked if the car I was driving belonged to me. I do not know why the police were suspicious of me. I was hardly going to ask because I was scared witless. This was in the late 70s early 80s so the terrorists then were the IRA. Perhaps I looked like a typical IRA person or your average criminal. I was then 17, white female who was a student living in the south west and the reason I could drive a car at that age in that era was my parents were middle class so had two cars one of which they could loan to their daughter. You are right in stead of being scared and embarrassed I should have been thanking to boys in blue that by acting on their suspicions of me they were f preventing the IRA or any other terrorists running amok in Somerset.
I have been searched by custom officers when trying to leave the country to go on holiday. Fortunately the search was confined to checking under my blouse and over my jeans nothing more intimate than that
Congratulations on knowing so many people
I have checked most post and it doesn't say stopped and searched, just stopped
On one occasion I was stopped because allegedly I was driving a car similar to one that had been stolen in the area. I had to get out the car and speak to the police officer whilst people who would have known me drove past. On the other occasion I was stopped and asked if the car I was driving belonged to me. I do not know why the police were suspicious of me. I was hardly going to ask because I was scared witless. This was in the late 70s early 80s so the terrorists then were the IRA. Perhaps I looked like a typical IRA person or your average criminal. I was then 17, white female who was a student living in the south west and the reason I could drive a car at that age in that era was my parents were middle class so had two cars one of which they could loan to their daughter. You are right in stead of being scared and embarrassed I should have been thanking to boys in blue that by acting on their suspicions of me they were f preventing the IRA or any other terrorists running amok in Somerset.
I have been searched by custom officers when trying to leave the country to go on holiday. Fortunately the search was confined to checking under my blouse and over my jeans nothing more intimate than that
all the answers in favour of stop-and-search can also be used in favour of speed cameras. Speeding kills far more people than terrorism. Law-abiding drivers couldn't possibly object as they have nothing to hide. And it'll be sensibly targeted at offenders - no time wasted in searching pedestrians. Money would be much better spent on stopping speeding than on stopping terrorism; many mroe lives would be saved.
I take it everyone agrees we should have more speed cameras, then?
I take it everyone agrees we should have more speed cameras, then?
ruby27 If it had been your car that had been stolen would you not have expected the police to do everything in their power to recover it for you, even if this meant stopping some motorist who happened to be driving a vehicle similar to yours?
I am fed up with certain sections of the communities expecting themselves to be free from police attention just because of their race, religion or whatever.
Regarding Muslims handind over fellow muslims to the Police, did they hand over those that were preaching anti westeners, anti Jewish rhetoric in British Mosques? NO.
Regarding the Police being racists, did they not stand by while simular anti western preachings, effiy and flag burnings were being conducted out on the streets, yet when a white person protested outside Downing Street she was arrested immediately? YES.
I am fed up with certain sections of the communities expecting themselves to be free from police attention just because of their race, religion or whatever.
Regarding Muslims handind over fellow muslims to the Police, did they hand over those that were preaching anti westeners, anti Jewish rhetoric in British Mosques? NO.
Regarding the Police being racists, did they not stand by while simular anti western preachings, effiy and flag burnings were being conducted out on the streets, yet when a white person protested outside Downing Street she was arrested immediately? YES.
I take it nobody has heard of the McPherson inquiry...
To be honest, it sounds from ruby's story like the police were just trying to look like they were doing something. Though to be fair, I don't know the details. But that's how it sounds, and it's certainly not an infrequent attitude.
am fed up with certain sections of the communities expecting themselves to be free from police attention just because of their race, religion or whatever.
It's nothing to do with race. They merely expect to be treated as citizens of the UK (which they are) rather than potential terrorists. Quite reasonable, really...
did they hand over those that were preaching anti westeners, anti Jewish rhetoric in British Mosques?
Did they need to? In most cases, the police are well aware of such people.
And even if that wasn't the case, perhaps they'd feel more co-operative if they weren't being constantly profiled due to their ethnicity.
To be honest, it sounds from ruby's story like the police were just trying to look like they were doing something. Though to be fair, I don't know the details. But that's how it sounds, and it's certainly not an infrequent attitude.
am fed up with certain sections of the communities expecting themselves to be free from police attention just because of their race, religion or whatever.
It's nothing to do with race. They merely expect to be treated as citizens of the UK (which they are) rather than potential terrorists. Quite reasonable, really...
did they hand over those that were preaching anti westeners, anti Jewish rhetoric in British Mosques?
Did they need to? In most cases, the police are well aware of such people.
And even if that wasn't the case, perhaps they'd feel more co-operative if they weren't being constantly profiled due to their ethnicity.
From what I see the police are losing, or have lost, control of certain spheres of policing. In certain cases they look positively gelded. It's largely down to Labour policy and Labour sloppiness. Now Labour seem to be devising Draconian laws to counteract what they were to blame for in the first place. If you like, a sledgehammer to crack the walnut they grew in the first place.
Just like hospitals need that matron of yesteryear back, police forces (not services, forces) need to have good old fashioned coppers at it's helm rather than political animals.
Are police racist? Well nowadays in that they make decisions NOT to prosecute if it will "inflame" certain communities. To the average person such behaviour is utter nonsense and sets dangerous precedents. And lets not forget the shambolic recruitment drive of ethnic minorities to the detriment of suitable white candidates.
Just like hospitals need that matron of yesteryear back, police forces (not services, forces) need to have good old fashioned coppers at it's helm rather than political animals.
Are police racist? Well nowadays in that they make decisions NOT to prosecute if it will "inflame" certain communities. To the average person such behaviour is utter nonsense and sets dangerous precedents. And lets not forget the shambolic recruitment drive of ethnic minorities to the detriment of suitable white candidates.
BTW KROMOVARAUN how many white suiside bombers has the UK had????? Why wouldn't they concentrate their effots in the most likley offenders!!!! So of course everyone is treated the same but people have to realise that sometimes they are going to be treated with suspision, because of race, age or sex, The same rule applies when i come accross a lost child in a supermarket, as a man I know better that to take them off the find their mum of offer them a lift home....welcome to the real world. xxx
Why is it..i have been stopped and searched and have been all too happy to help the police as a younge male i know i will be treated differently to an old lady, for instance i would never offer a younge girl a lift home!?!?!? and in the same vein.... how many white suiside bombers has the UK had????? Why wouldn't they concentrate their effots in the most likley offenders!!!!
Jesus Christ, man! Would it kill you to write coherently?
how many white suiside bombers has the UK had?????
I can't name any suicide bombers, but there have been multiple white terrorists (for instance the chap a while ago who attempted to poison dental products and car door handles, or various IRA attacks.)
Why wouldn't they concentrate their effots in the most likley offenders!!!!
But the ones who committ these attacks are in a tiny minority of the community. Applying these measures across the entire community (the vast majority of whom abhor the actions of terrorists) is a wonderful way of creating tension and making them less likely to help. It's also quite an effective way of making younger Muslims more susceptible to extremists.
As I say, I'm actually all for the police taking actions against terrorism (hell, who isn't?), but taking such adversarial and divisive means will at best do next to nothing and at worst make the problem worse, and that's not even mentioning the objection to civil rights violations.
I'd love to respond to the rest of your points admarlow, but I don't understand a word you're saying....
how many white suiside bombers has the UK had?????
I can't name any suicide bombers, but there have been multiple white terrorists (for instance the chap a while ago who attempted to poison dental products and car door handles, or various IRA attacks.)
Why wouldn't they concentrate their effots in the most likley offenders!!!!
But the ones who committ these attacks are in a tiny minority of the community. Applying these measures across the entire community (the vast majority of whom abhor the actions of terrorists) is a wonderful way of creating tension and making them less likely to help. It's also quite an effective way of making younger Muslims more susceptible to extremists.
As I say, I'm actually all for the police taking actions against terrorism (hell, who isn't?), but taking such adversarial and divisive means will at best do next to nothing and at worst make the problem worse, and that's not even mentioning the objection to civil rights violations.
I'd love to respond to the rest of your points admarlow, but I don't understand a word you're saying....
without being patronising (spot the potser who reads the Guardian and votes Lib Dem too much!!) why would the police want to "create tension" maybe someone has been watching too much Michael Moore and spends too much time on the internet!! P.s as for writing coherently..committ is actually spelt with one T ( you will learn that once you get to year 9 and clear up some of that acne xxxxx)
I haven't been stopped and searched for years, not since I stopped dying my hair and took out my piercings. During those days I was searched frequently....3 times in one day whilst sat relaxing in the sun in Hyde Park with my friend, who was a male with long hair. We felt humilated enough to leave eventually. I guess the police were looking for drugs. Don't tell me they don't go by looks, presumptions and stereotyping people. By the way I am law abiding, always have been.
I agree 100% with Iggy. Using the T word, they are eroding our rights and liberties. What happens if you have enough of it...nothing....as there will be nothing you can do to stop it. You can't gather a protest, you can't talk about it, (conspiracy) you can't do anything.
I agree 100% with Iggy. Using the T word, they are eroding our rights and liberties. What happens if you have enough of it...nothing....as there will be nothing you can do to stop it. You can't gather a protest, you can't talk about it, (conspiracy) you can't do anything.
Ummmm...did anyone see thje story on News At Ten last night?
Under existing legislation, the number of stop 'n' searches have been about 22,000. These have resulted in 27 arrests under the Prevention Of Terrorism Act.
Anyone who thinks that expanding these powers is 'making the country safer' is deluded.
This is what will happen....the vast, vast, vast majority of law-abiding young Muslim men will regard the police, and by extension, white authority figures, as the enemy (if they didn't before).
What happens to young disaffected, alienated men when they feel that society is against them? The weaker ones could be targeted by the very people we're trying to protect ourselves from.
Voila! You've acheieved the exact opposite of what you want because of some dumb political strategy designed to placate the fears stoked up by some other dumb political strategies.
Under existing legislation, the number of stop 'n' searches have been about 22,000. These have resulted in 27 arrests under the Prevention Of Terrorism Act.
Anyone who thinks that expanding these powers is 'making the country safer' is deluded.
This is what will happen....the vast, vast, vast majority of law-abiding young Muslim men will regard the police, and by extension, white authority figures, as the enemy (if they didn't before).
What happens to young disaffected, alienated men when they feel that society is against them? The weaker ones could be targeted by the very people we're trying to protect ourselves from.
Voila! You've acheieved the exact opposite of what you want because of some dumb political strategy designed to placate the fears stoked up by some other dumb political strategies.
spot the potser who reads the Guardian and votes Lib Dem too much!!
I'm not a Guardian-reader. Or a Lib-Dem voter (in fact I'm just below voting age, but I probably wouldn't if I could).
Lovely ad hominem argument by the way. Just genius. Care to actually counter any of my points or are you just going to call me 'guardian-reader' and claim victory?
why would the police want to "create tension"
An excellent question - it's entirely pointless, but they're certainly going about it the right way. I've allready explained this, as has sp1814 above.
P.s as for writing coherently..committ is actually spelt with one T ( you will learn that once you get to year 9 and clear up some of that acne xxxxx)
I'm glad you've been able to spot one typo in my (considerably longer) post, but this hardly warrants (or equals) your nigh-incomprehensible post above.
I'm not a Guardian-reader. Or a Lib-Dem voter (in fact I'm just below voting age, but I probably wouldn't if I could).
Lovely ad hominem argument by the way. Just genius. Care to actually counter any of my points or are you just going to call me 'guardian-reader' and claim victory?
why would the police want to "create tension"
An excellent question - it's entirely pointless, but they're certainly going about it the right way. I've allready explained this, as has sp1814 above.
P.s as for writing coherently..committ is actually spelt with one T ( you will learn that once you get to year 9 and clear up some of that acne xxxxx)
I'm glad you've been able to spot one typo in my (considerably longer) post, but this hardly warrants (or equals) your nigh-incomprehensible post above.
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