Sir Trevor McDonald

[jimmysipples]

I don't like Bernard Mannings comedy, it is dated and maybe wasn't suitable in this day and age but I am curious as to peoples opinions. Should Sir Trevor be allowed to get away with calling him a "fat white b**t*rd"?

Is this not a form of racism also? If the shoe was on the other foot, there would be public outcry. I do not support any kind of racism, but i am also not a fan of double standards. Are there any coloured ABers out there who laughed at Sir Trev's comments the way some white would laugh at Bernards? Does this not reflect how all of these comments should be taken? with a pinch of salt and not with the uproar which normally happens?

People may say it was said as a joke (which is still unacceptable to many) but i have saw the clip a few times now and it wasn't a joke. There was severe anger and hatred in Sir Trevors eyes as he made the comment.

I wasn't gonna bring this up in the AB as I reckoned it would just get me ridiculed but then I thought "why not" as the page would be full of comments had it been the other way round.

We cant have a half hearted approach to all of the race issues in the uk. Either its the same rule for all regarding comments or as i'd prefer we all just chill out and learn to laugh again at all walks of life, because not one of us is perfect.

[sp1814]

D'uh - "supplying".

[sp1814]

Oh, and Doc Spock. There's no such thing as the race relations board'.

You're thinking of the Commission For Racial Equality. And they definitely take on cases of anti-white racism.

This is why they're called the 'Commission For Racial Equality'...rather than say, the 'Commission To Allow Black People To Insult White People'.

That would be ridiculous...hardly rolls off the tongue, does it?

[NJOK]

Olddutch, I love your debating technique.

1. Make a statement, as if it's fact.
2. See that statement taken to pieces by others and shown up to be ridiculous.
3. Try to think of counter argument. Fail.
4. Clinch the debate by repeating the original statement but preceding it with 'In spite of other people's arguments...'

Genius. And people wonder why you don't get the Trevor McDonald joke...

[NORMANTHEDOG]

most comeadians tell some sort of racists jokes,even today,jim davidson,does it all the time,whether its aboout jews,blacks,whites or the irish,what is wrong with it,its light hearted banter to make people laugh.it does not make them racists,and you dont have to go and see them or listen to you,but if you do then dont be offended,listen to asian and black comeadians they are very much worse then ours.

[whippetycros]

Most comedians... even Jim D.
Firstly you need to own that in your opinion JD is a comedian - because many people do not find him comic in the slightest - offensive yes, bigoted yes, sexist yes. True he is very toned down when he is on tv but elsewhere the real peson comes through and most of it is just profanity. Or was when I had the misfortune to see some of his show on a video and couldn't immediately escape

[WaldoMcFroog]

"listen to asian and black comeadians they are very much worse then ours"

"Ours"?!!

[China Doll]

Jim Davidson as a comedian? Well that's a new one on me I must admit...As far as I can tell, like Bernard Manning he holds the views that he preaches.

But if you do want to go down the 'black and asian comedians are much worse than ours,' route (what kind of argument is that anyway?!) then does that somehow justify racism in comedy? Might as well call Jethro a wit for all the sense that argument makes to me.

I think there's a slight difference in saying that white men can't dance and have a limited sense of rhythm and being just absolutely offensive. (Incidently, I do know of at least two white men who can dance and have an excellent sense of rhythm before anyone slates me!)

[sp1814]

NORMANTHEDOG

Please tell me a Jim Davidson joke which is specifically about white men!!!

I don't mean an Englishman, Welshman and Irishman joke, because that's an 'Irish' joke.

I would like an example of Jim Davidson taking the mickey out of English working class white me.

<Tumbleweed drifts past...>

[sp1814]

That should read:

"English working class white men.

Dunno...perhaps there's something wrong with my keyboard.

[China Doll]

Jim Davidson perhaps is the joke?

[olddutch]

NJOK, I dont know if you're on a wind up mission or you really believe in your point of view. Anyway I'm sorry you're spurning the obvious.

If a racist joke is racist in BMs mouth then equally a racist Joke is racist in TMs mouth. TMs joke may have been funny, ironical and contextual but who are you to say TM wasnt being racist when he made his racist joke. Its a simple fact that TM spoke a racist phrase which is unacceptable in todays PC climate. Once you allow exceptions on account of colour, stupidity, context, naivety, irony, comedic licence or anything else then you are undermining the very foundations of contemporary PCism. Full-blown PC rules OK. The PC rules of today are very clear that it is wrong to make racist jokes or comments PERIOD.

NJOK please respect PC , the Dead and dissident fellow abers. Respect.

[WaldoMcFroog]

In the interests of free and frank debate, can you provide a link to these rules, please? I think it would be helpful if everyone could see the evidence. Obviously if it's in the rules like you say, it would prove your point once and for all.

[NJOK]

So you find the Little Britain sketch racist do you?

I'm looking forward to seeing these 'rules'. And I applaud you perfect adherence to your technique:

1. Make a statement, as if it's fact.
2. See that statement taken to pieces by others and shown up to be ridiculous.
3. Try to think of counter argument. Fail.
4. Clinch the debate by repeating the original statement but preceding it with 'In spite of other people's arguments...'

[olddutch]

Dear Waldo,

The supreme link and evidence so far as political correctness is concerned is our own ears and eyes and commonsense applied in the university of life. These days you are not allowed to call someone a black or white bast**d even under the cloak of irony or comedy etc. It cant be clearer - look what happened recently on the current Big Brother when a contestant without malice (I believe) used the N word. If the contestant had been doing irony, the censure and repercussions would have remained the same.

As NJOK has already pointed out, a lot people dont get irony. Many people would be racially offended (no matter what) if the habit of racist comment or jokes were to form again in television comedy . If anyone has managed to get away with it on TV on under irony or comedy then they've been very lucky so far.If it is PC to have Ironical racism on TV today then why dont we have a modern day Alf Garnett type character/programme on TV to highlight how silly racial prejudice really is. Would people laugh at him or with him. Too many people would be offended.

Anyway, thats my take on it and I'm losing the will to live - Good Luck if you still see it different and Good Luck if you dont.
.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"If it is PC to have Ironical racism on TV today then why dont we have a modern day Alf Garnett type character/programme on TV to highlight how silly racial prejudice really is."

You're right. <sigh> *If only* there could be such a programme in today's 'PC gone mad' world...

I know... they could set it in an office and do it as a mock documentary following the lives of the workers, particularly the ignorant and bigotted boss. They could get that Ricky Gervais to star in it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what we might call such a programme? Perhaps we should pitch it to BBC 2?

Oh, but I'm being fanciful. Such a programme could never get made today without their being a huge outcry, could it?