The Menendez tragedy

[whiffey]

Shot by the police, a mistake yes, but which mistake and who made it ?

Here is my solution, it is simple and it will work. To the front-line armed officers issue the order 'if the target is even vaguely ethnic minority' clear off to the pub and ignore it. If you don't, you will be pilloried. Better still, just have a gun that goes bang and waves an ethnically suitable flag. If your object is white though, then you fire away !

You see, all the reports refer to the *Brazilian* rather than to the human being.

[dyli795]

It was unfortunate, but that doesn't realy excuse it. My thaughts on the matter are that it was a uniquly new circumstance, one where we didn't know where the murder of inocent people was going to end (yes he was inocent too, needles to add). Unfortunate is the only word I can think of. I don't think our armed police go arround rubbing people out just in case they are a terrorist do you? We know now there is room for improvement however. We couldn't of known before as I say a unique situation is or has emerged for the authorities to confront. You could even say it was a victory for all the mindles terrorits because one more inocent person was killed as a result of their actions, and they didn't have to lift a finger! Whiffey, have you ever seen the smile on a terrorists face? I hope you never do. You wouldn't like it, I submit.

[jno]

a good order would be 'If the subject is innocent, don't shoot'.

[sp1814]

Even better - shouting out a warning beforehand, along the lines of Armed police...stop or your will be shot would work.

However, I'm not having a go at the the officers on the ground that day. The current inquiry isn't about that. It's about how senior police offers reacted after the event.

I think that Asst Comm Andy Hayman should resign.

[sp1814]

Actually I have a related question...in today's paper, there's a picture of Jean Claude lying down on the floor of the tube carraige and there's fourteen markers around his body (on the floor and seats).

Has anyone heard an explanation for these...surely they're not marking where the bullet cases fell???

[Dassie]

If , as I think you are implying, that there was an initial attempted cover-up, then why should Andy Haymen resign?Everything that is questionable in the public eye is an attempted cover-up at one point or another in this Country. Arms deals with the Saudis, Cash for Honours, Govt waste of Taxpayers money, true statistics about MRSA in hospitals, immigration figures, the Diana affair etc. This was unfortunate but it was reported that he was told to stop but ignored the instruction. As for the markers I would assume that there were several automatic weapons being used, not pistols.

[jake-the-peg]

I'd like to hear anybody who thinks that lying to the public and saying he jumped the turnstyles and was wearing a thick jacket was a propoer way for the police to beghave after the fact.

Anyone want to defend that one?

Anyone?

[Gromit]

Worth noting this is the second inquiry. The first one decided that no one was really to blame for the shooting.

This inquiry is about the handling of the aftermath. The fact that a lot of duff information (lies) was told by the police at various news conferences is hard to deny. Seems this Andy Haymen knew the facts but let the cops spin a false story. As he is supposed to be Britain's terror chief, he failed miserably in his job.

[China Doll]

I'd like to write something eloquent and witty (for a change) but I'm feeling rather tired and emotional this morning so....

I think Andy Hayman should resign.

[WaldoMcFroog]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand where comfortable Western armchairs fit into all this? It actually looks like you've failed to factor them into your paranoid rant all together.

[lovejoy]

If an armed police officer told you to stop any reasonable person would simply ask what the problem was, this man chose to flee which gave the officer reason to think he may be a muslim terrorist who may have been about to detonate an explosive device which could have resulted in the deaths of another couple of hundred British people.

Moral of the story is simple, if you have nothing to hide dont act like a criminal

[Gromit]

lovejoy

The police have already been aquitted of the shooting, this is about who's fault it was that they told us a load of lies afterwards.

If I was in a foreign country and a group of men not in police uniforms came after me, I would run.

[sp1814]

To everyone who calls this 'an unfortunate event', I would like you to take a good look at a close loved one, and then imagine them lying in a pool of their own congealing blood, with both eyes punctured and brain matter covering the back of their shirt collar.

I then want you to explain how this could be considered 'unfortunate'.

Remember - you first have to picture this as your husband/wife/child.

I think 'unfortunate' is a very poor choice of word.

The man could've been any one of us.

[jake-the-peg]

You see this is exactly why someone needs to take accountability for the lies.

I cannot believe there are people like Lovejoy out there that still believe he was acting suspiciouly.

Armed police make mistakes - we all accept that's inevitable - being lied to when it happens is not!

[WaldoMcFroog]

"If an armed police officer told you to stop any reasonable person would simply ask what the problem was, this man chose to flee"

For god's sake, no, he didn't. This has been shown to be an outright fiction time and time again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/lo ndon_blasts/tube_shooting/html/station.stm

The first time Menenzes was challenged was on the tube train, and the police now admit that challenge was not in the proper legally-required format and unlikely to have been comprehensible to an innocent person.

"Moral of the story is simple, if you have nothing to hide dont act like a criminal"

Moral of the story is why not bother finding out the well established facts before jerking your knee?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Oh, and a link to a Telegraph story about the challenge:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml =/news/2007/08/03/nmenezes303.xml

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, the fact of the matter is that this menendez guy was seen going into a known terrorists apartment on numerous occasions.
When asked to stop by police, he jumped over a security barrier and fled. With him wearing a big jacket in the summer and being found in a known terrorists appartment and with all that had just gone on, i think the police had every right to stop him, forcefully if necessary.
It annoys when they still go on about this guy as he was an illegal immigrant, had no job, was mixing with terrorists and flouted our laws.
I have sympathy he died but i also have sympathy for the police who was trying to safegaurd the lifes of hundereds of others, off the info they had at the time...

[WaldoMcFroog]

Congratulations; you win today's 'I don't bother reading the rest of the thread' award for your skilled avoidance of the facts even when put in front of you.

[MrBen5]

I know you can get links from places, but the fact of the matter is, this guy was a suspected terrorist.
What are the police supposed to do?
Can you imagine the uproar if it turned out he was a suicide bomber and hundreds of people lost their lives, all because the police werent '100%' certain?
People who come to this country need to reside must understand that they have to live by our laws. If they break them, then they will be dealt with in whatever action the police deem necessary for the situation.
You can put as many links as you like on here, trhe facts are still there, regardless of what the police tried to cover up afterwards...

[MrBen5]

Who won yesterdays prize for it anyway?

[Oneeyedvic]

MrBen5 - thank you so much for your response - it really has shown you up for what you are.

Well Done