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The Menendez tragedy
Shot by the police, a mistake yes, but which mistake and who made it ?
Here is my solution, it is simple and it will work. To the front-line armed officers issue the order 'if the target is even vaguely ethnic minority' clear off to the pub and ignore it. If you don't, you will be pilloried. Better still, just have a gun that goes bang and waves an ethnically suitable flag. If your object is white though, then you fire away !
You see, all the reports refer to the *Brazilian* rather than to the human being.
Here is my solution, it is simple and it will work. To the front-line armed officers issue the order 'if the target is even vaguely ethnic minority' clear off to the pub and ignore it. If you don't, you will be pilloried. Better still, just have a gun that goes bang and waves an ethnically suitable flag. If your object is white though, then you fire away !
You see, all the reports refer to the *Brazilian* rather than to the human being.
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Yes, thankyou oneeyed vic.
i am the last of a dying breed of people who doesnt get brainwashed into thinking that because he didnt have any bombs on him, he is an innocent guy.
Just out of curiosity, how do you think the police should have handled it, given the scenario at the time ?
I would love to see what sort of guy you really are...
i am the last of a dying breed of people who doesnt get brainwashed into thinking that because he didnt have any bombs on him, he is an innocent guy.
Just out of curiosity, how do you think the police should have handled it, given the scenario at the time ?
I would love to see what sort of guy you really are...
the 'fact' is that the police thought he was a terrorist because of their own bungled surveillance, not because of anything whatever that he'd done. He was - let me spell this out - i.n.n.o.c.e.n.t. The police were looking for someone to shoot, screwed up royally, shot an innocent man, and lied and lied about it to cover up their own guilt. Why Hayman should be the only one to be blamed I don't know; the level of incompetence was mind-blowing. But it came from people below him rather than above, so it's quite right he should pay the price.
Or do other people not believe in taking responsibility for your actions?
Or do other people not believe in taking responsibility for your actions?
Hmmm, i think its a little narrow minded jno to suggest that the police are just looking for people to shoot. I am sure they are more professional than that.
I do agree with you though on the cover up. They shouldnt have lied. But i stand by my point that he was suspected terrorist and had to be taken out when fleeing the police.
They have no morals or values so the police cannot take a chance in scenarios like that. They have to make snap decisions, unfortunately it seems this time they made an error...
I do agree with you though on the cover up. They shouldnt have lied. But i stand by my point that he was suspected terrorist and had to be taken out when fleeing the police.
They have no morals or values so the police cannot take a chance in scenarios like that. They have to make snap decisions, unfortunately it seems this time they made an error...
Totally agree with you Gromit, i am not defending all the actions of the police, i just understand why they did what they did.
Coming from a military background, i know first hand that people arent always what they seem. You have to assess the situation and previous intel.
The problem our forces have these days is that there are too many do-gooders about that start whimpering.
A lot of my friends have lost their lifes through these uneducated inbreds who hold no values for anything.
this time the police made an error and mistakened this guy as a muslim terrorist, but they should be praised for all the would be ones they have got...
Coming from a military background, i know first hand that people arent always what they seem. You have to assess the situation and previous intel.
The problem our forces have these days is that there are too many do-gooders about that start whimpering.
A lot of my friends have lost their lifes through these uneducated inbreds who hold no values for anything.
this time the police made an error and mistakened this guy as a muslim terrorist, but they should be praised for all the would be ones they have got...
MrBen5 - Did you think he was 'not an innocent guy' before or after you posted about him vaulting over security barriers and fleeing?
Not brainwashed? No - probably because you seem to have no clue about what went on, what the police said (or lied about) and what the subsequent investigations have said.
It amazes me when people spot off a load of false information purporting it as fact and then when it is shown to them that what they believe is false, they either choose not to read it or come up with another excuse.
The facts of the matter are that he did not vault the barrier, he was wearing a denim jacket and the police officers did not identify themselves properly.
Yes, he was guilty of living in a block of flats that a terrorist suspect was living in. Oh dear - better ask your solicitor's next time you move and find out if there are searches that can be done to prevent this kind of thing!
For someone who claims to have political ambitions, I sincerely hope you bother listening to facts rather than your own opinion
Not brainwashed? No - probably because you seem to have no clue about what went on, what the police said (or lied about) and what the subsequent investigations have said.
It amazes me when people spot off a load of false information purporting it as fact and then when it is shown to them that what they believe is false, they either choose not to read it or come up with another excuse.
The facts of the matter are that he did not vault the barrier, he was wearing a denim jacket and the police officers did not identify themselves properly.
Yes, he was guilty of living in a block of flats that a terrorist suspect was living in. Oh dear - better ask your solicitor's next time you move and find out if there are searches that can be done to prevent this kind of thing!
For someone who claims to have political ambitions, I sincerely hope you bother listening to facts rather than your own opinion
Hmmm, i am a one off China Doll.
Oneeyed vic, the facts are that he was seen going into a suspected terrorists flat on numerous occasions and was also over here illegally, which meant the police had limited info on him. (dont ask for any silly links to prove this as i am not that clever on the internet). The fact that the police were unmarked is nothing to do with it. They clearly stated who they were. This guy ran and the police suspected he was a terrorist capable of killing hundreds of people as did happen a short time before.
The pics i saw on cctv showed him with a large jacket on, on a hot summers day. He ran from the police after being told to stop.
I think the police at the scene did everything they felt right at that time. i would be 100% behind our forces unless you have evidence to suggest the police who shot him were incompetent...
Oneeyed vic, the facts are that he was seen going into a suspected terrorists flat on numerous occasions and was also over here illegally, which meant the police had limited info on him. (dont ask for any silly links to prove this as i am not that clever on the internet). The fact that the police were unmarked is nothing to do with it. They clearly stated who they were. This guy ran and the police suspected he was a terrorist capable of killing hundreds of people as did happen a short time before.
The pics i saw on cctv showed him with a large jacket on, on a hot summers day. He ran from the police after being told to stop.
I think the police at the scene did everything they felt right at that time. i would be 100% behind our forces unless you have evidence to suggest the police who shot him were incompetent...
Its on him isnt it.
I can only go off the images i saw on cctv. It showed people in t-shirts and topless and in vests.
This guy just stuck out as he had this jacket on.
All i am defending is the fact that the police who shot him were instructed to do so, given the circumstances.
You can call me what you like but i have my own reasons for standing by our forces. They have a tough job to do against this uncontrollable threat.
As i stated before, this time it looks like they made a mistake, but they have not made that many compared to successes...
I can only go off the images i saw on cctv. It showed people in t-shirts and topless and in vests.
This guy just stuck out as he had this jacket on.
All i am defending is the fact that the police who shot him were instructed to do so, given the circumstances.
You can call me what you like but i have my own reasons for standing by our forces. They have a tough job to do against this uncontrollable threat.
As i stated before, this time it looks like they made a mistake, but they have not made that many compared to successes...
Mr Ben
I know you don't like links, but this CCTV picture shows better the lack of a bulky jacket.
http://www.bushywood.com/council_images/jean_c harles_de_menezes_terrorist_unlawful_death_pol ice_shooting.jpg
And other info about the lies here
http://www.bushywood.com/lana_vandenberghe_pol ice_special_branch_terrorist_whistelblower.htm
I know you don't like links, but this CCTV picture shows better the lack of a bulky jacket.
http://www.bushywood.com/council_images/jean_c harles_de_menezes_terrorist_unlawful_death_pol ice_shooting.jpg
And other info about the lies here
http://www.bushywood.com/lana_vandenberghe_pol ice_special_branch_terrorist_whistelblower.htm
Hmm thats a nice cctv image Gromit, compare that to jakes just a few links up. Where are you getiing all these images from? they are totally different.
I could give you pics of the actual terrorists that were successful and place them to that and they would look no different. Your not convincing me. :(
Oneeyed vic, there is intelligence showing him entering the actual suspected terrorists flat and talking to the suspected terrorists they were watching.
As i said before, the police acted appropriately with what info they had at that time.
You can show me as many links as you like. I am not saying they were right in shooting him, all i am saying is that they did what they were trained to do...
I could give you pics of the actual terrorists that were successful and place them to that and they would look no different. Your not convincing me. :(
Oneeyed vic, there is intelligence showing him entering the actual suspected terrorists flat and talking to the suspected terrorists they were watching.
As i said before, the police acted appropriately with what info they had at that time.
You can show me as many links as you like. I am not saying they were right in shooting him, all i am saying is that they did what they were trained to do...
JNO
'The police were looking for someone to shoot' What a malicious, unfounded allegation. I would expect better from you. They must have checked hundeds of people around this time. One mistake. Yes, a mistake like you have made repeatedly in posts when you have refered to him as a plumber instead of an electrician. I know yours might be a minor error but just shows how facts can get altered.
If he wasn't in the country illegally then maybe he wouldn't have run.
Gromit.
That link you gave of the photo of Menendez , clearly wasn't him, unless he changed his shoes when running for the train. Of course, what am I thinking, the police probably changed them and his clothes.
No excuse for the lies after the event. Those responsible should be severly dealt with.
'The police were looking for someone to shoot' What a malicious, unfounded allegation. I would expect better from you. They must have checked hundeds of people around this time. One mistake. Yes, a mistake like you have made repeatedly in posts when you have refered to him as a plumber instead of an electrician. I know yours might be a minor error but just shows how facts can get altered.
If he wasn't in the country illegally then maybe he wouldn't have run.
Gromit.
That link you gave of the photo of Menendez , clearly wasn't him, unless he changed his shoes when running for the train. Of course, what am I thinking, the police probably changed them and his clothes.
No excuse for the lies after the event. Those responsible should be severly dealt with.
I apologise if I've given Mr de Menezes' job wrongly, chompu - I do like to get things right, whether significant facts or not.
But if you think the police weren't out to shoot someone, you have to ask why they had guns. If you think they only needed to protect themselves in an emergency, you have to ask what sort of emergency actually arose - bearing in mind that Mr de Menezes did not have a bomb, or jump turnstiles, or run away. He walked into the station, paying with his Oyster card, and got onto a train and sat down. Hardly suspicious or improper behaviour. The bad behaviour was all on the part of the police. At no stage did they have any need to shoot anyone whatever. Yet they did. That's why I think they wanted to shoot someone - because they did shoot someone, and someone entirely innocent.
But if you think the police weren't out to shoot someone, you have to ask why they had guns. If you think they only needed to protect themselves in an emergency, you have to ask what sort of emergency actually arose - bearing in mind that Mr de Menezes did not have a bomb, or jump turnstiles, or run away. He walked into the station, paying with his Oyster card, and got onto a train and sat down. Hardly suspicious or improper behaviour. The bad behaviour was all on the part of the police. At no stage did they have any need to shoot anyone whatever. Yet they did. That's why I think they wanted to shoot someone - because they did shoot someone, and someone entirely innocent.
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