The hooligan rears his ugly head again

[sft42]

surely now it's time for the international community in the form of UEFA and FIFA to act and ban the english team from all future competitions until that countries FA can give assurancies that they will not act in the repellant manner they feel they can get away with everytime their country plays abroad.

It's shameful and disgusting behaviour and I can see how anyone can defend it.

For anyone not aware of the latest repugant actions of the england supporters click here http://www.itv.com/news/1398119.html and not content with wrecking other countries they ran amok at home as well http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/nati
onalnews/tm_objectid=14330942&method=full&siteid=50100&headline=83-held-as-england-fans-riot-name_page.html

[sft42]

I should, of course, have typed "can't see how anyone can defend it"

[Loadsamoney]

sft42

put away your big wooden spoon. I have only one thing to add 'Wembley goalposts'

[Loadsamoney]

sft42

put away your big wooden spoon. I have only one thing to add 'Wembley goalposts'

[sft42]

Hhhmm that was in 1977.....your fellow counrtymen make a habit of it everytime abroad.....but yet as recently as last year Glasgow Celtic fans managed to win the FIFA fair play award for their great behavior...let me enlighten you further on the english hall of shame abroad then eh?

[sft42]

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The History of English Shame

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World Cup - EURO 2000 (Netherlands / Belgium)

ENGLAND: yet again, major crowd disorder in brussels and Charleroi, around the time of the England vs Germany EURO 2000 match. 1000+ hoolies deported by Beglian Air Force. Country disgraced and England threatened with expulsion from the tournament. Yet again, the press is full of so called England fans bleating that it wasn't their fault and that they were victimised. Aye right, where have we heard that one before?

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World Cup - France 1998

ENGLAND: As expected, the English fans (or at least a fair number of them) again showed their worse side and became involved in extensive violence in marseille in the run up to their opening World Cup match there against Tunisia. Many arrests and enforcement of a curfew in the city (and subsequent cities where England were playing) resulted.

A newspaper reported the headline 'English Fan Held in Fatal Stabbing' shortly after the Englands elimination by Argentina in Saint Etienne. The story centered on an Englishman who was remanded in custody for stabbing a Frenchman to death. The excuse for the stabbing was 'I thought he was an Argentian supporter'! As if that is supposed to make it OK.

[sft42]

SCOTLAND: The excellent behaviour of the 20,000-strong Tartan Army during France 98 was officially recognised in Monte Carlo in September 1998 when long serving supporter Kevin Donnelly accepted the Per Ludos Fraternitas trophy, presented by the International Association for Non-Violence in Sport. Journalists voted the Scots the best for fair play and sporting spirit during World Cup 98.

Shortly after France '98, the following (unsigned) message was received from the Bordeaux Students Association.
"I'm a french young fan from the scottish national team. I want to gratulate the tartan Army, because you've ever sing and you have been ever happy (sorry for my bad English). You are the best fans of the world! Be ever so proud to be scots. One day, Scotland will be independant! England is just sh!t. BONNIE SCOTLAND!!!!!"

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Post France '98 Activities, September 1998

The headline read 'England hit by a double hammer blow by Euro football chiefs for their night of shame in Sweden' and the subsequent article explained that the English FA were fined �27,000 because of racist chants to Henrik Larsson and for damage caused to Stockholm's Rasunda Stadium.

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Post France '98 Activities, October 1998

There were 50 England football fans deported from Belgium, a National Criminal Intelligence Service spokesman confirmed. They flew to Brussels on their way to Luxembourg for Englands Euro 2000 qualifying match. They were detained and sent back to Manchester. A Belgian police spokesman said: "They were arrested because they were drunk and a menace to the public order". Not to be outdone with forays to the '98 World Cup, England fans continue the trail of shame.

[sft42]

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EURO and World Championships Records

ITALIA'90
England: Hundreds of fans arrested and deported as unruly fans smash up Bologna and Rimini during the World Cup.
Scotland: 25,000 Scots fans spent a peaceful time in Italy with noone being arrested during the 2 week spell.

Sweden - EURO'92
England: 1500 fans deported after riots in Malmo.
Scotland: Fans win the 'Best Supporters' award. No-one arrested. 7 Scots got married. Because of the excellent relationship built up between the Scotland and Sweden supporters during and since EURO'92, the World Cup qualifying match against Sweden in November 1996 sees the Swedish fans seated in same stand as the main core of the Scotland support. You dont see that much in England !

England - EURO'96
England: Widespread civil disturbances, cars burnt, police injured, many arrests, etc.
Scotland: 2nd place in uefa good behaviour supporters awards, fans praised by chief constable of Birmingham etc.

France - W. Cup '98
England: Widespread civil disturbances, riots (Marseille), etc.
Scotland: No arrests + best supporters award (again).

Basically if your english and you identify with these thugs in anyway hang your head in shame as the world looks on in disgust!

[nedflanders]

I think that this incident was serious but not serious enough to chuck them out. What Uefa need to do is show them the yellow card and warn them once more if there is any more nonsense then it's ta ta! I doubt if Uefa will have the bottle to throw them out though as there is money at stake for them! PS. As for the goalposts comment that was nearly 30 years ago ! When scotland go abroad they are welcomed 80,000 celtic fans went to seville last year and there was one arrest!

[Loadsamoney]

You are making an asumption they are my "fellow counrtymen" and if it's ok because that was 1977 then surely your example dates of 1998 & 2000 fall in too the same catogary.

The fact your very full reply posting came back so quick indicates your are waving you Scotish spoon.

[sft42]

The fact my response came so quick indicates I was sitting at the computer and the litany of carnage the english fans have caused over the years was so easy to find......My "assumption" that they are your fellow countrymen comes from the fact that it beggars belief that anyone else in the civilised world would be sticking up for a group of supporters who repeatedly goaded the police with bottles and stone throwing till they had to intervein.....as for 1977 (27 years ago) and 2000 (four years ago) being the same thing if you honestly think this then you are either only kidding yourself on or your still wearing flares and tank tops while riding your space hopper thinking your the height of fashion.

P.S. Never once did I say that the pitch invasion in 1977 was ok but there was little in the way of civil disobediance and damage to property outwith the stadium itself.

[Loadsamoney]

No one in their right mind would try to defend this "disgusting behaviour " and I sincerly hope, all so called supports who behave like this are locked up at the very least. But what is also intolerably is people like youself stf42 trying to stir up trouble between nations.

ps tank top no but still wearing my kilt.

[derbyram]

OK - Kick us out. I am all for sanctions so long as they are equitable. Were the turks banned from any competition after they STABBED TO DEATH 2 Leeds fans? We were rightly banned from European club football after the shame of Heysel but it appears that trouble does not only blight the English game. England supporters have come a long way in the past few years and it should be noted that the 'incident' in Portugal was reported by the Portugese Police as a 'minor incident'. Let's not be too quick to react unless the reason is that you just want England out no matter what the rationale.

[sft42]

I am stirring up trouble by merely reporting the fact and highlighting it? Surely then anyone who tried to goad the scottish supporters with taunts about us not making it to the tournament is in a much worse position then according to your definition?

As the old saying goes "Don't shoot the messenger" as everything I have said is cold hard fact not in anyway an opinion....well all except your tank top wearing.

[LeMarchand]

I've got a better idea - let's just ban football altogether. It encourages tribal behaviour and violence, the ridiculous money top players earn adds to the "money for nothing" culture that is becoming rampant in society, and it's boring.

[nedflanders]

Just a quick note ! As far as i could tell the turks who stabbed the leeds fans had nothing to do with the game It was the night before and even if it was it would be a club issue as they were playing galatasaray (note i do not condone what happened as it was an outrage). Which brings up another point. At Sunderland 14 months ago over 100 were arrested and there were two pitch invasions.

[derbyram]

Yes nedflanders I was including club matches as well. Sunderland was a disgrace and we should have been made to play at least two matches behind closed doors. As I said, I have no problems with punishments as long as they are fairly applied to all (nations/clubs). If everyone knows what sanctions are going to be put upon them then they can have no argument when they fall foul of the law.

[Quizmonster]

The central element in the "Scotland fans as compared with England fans" matter is the fact that - after Argentina 1978 - 'Ally MacLeod's tartan army' and their successors finally grasped their team was rubbish in world terms. Accordingly, they never even remotely expected to win any major tournament and attended just for the fun of it. (Hence, kilted rascals dancing in fountains with local girls around the world!)

The difficulty is that England's fans have never been able to grasp that their team is little better. As a result - even after 38 years of failure - they still think that they are a force to be reckoned with in world football. (Hence, red-bellied, Union-Jack-beshorted fools hurling caf� tables!)

Until they grasp the fact that they are not, their hooligan problem will never be solved.

[Tj]

"Basically if your (sic) english and you identify with these thugs in anyway hang your head in shame as the world looks on in disgust!" Well obviously we don't, so we can hold our heads high, proud to be English. I know you keep referring to Celtic fans as an example because it's been a while since Scotland qualified for a major tournament, but I notice you've conveniently forgotten about Liverpool fans being awarded that same FIFA fair play award for their good behaviour just 3 or so years ago. You critisise English fans for racism (which is pretty rich coming from one of the most openly racist people I have ever encounted), but haven't mentioned the torrent of abuse players such as Bodo Balde have experienced in the Scottish domestic league this year, nor the many Old Firm supporters who use football rivalry as a thinly veiled disguise to vent their deep-seated religious hatred towards each other. I'm not trying to defend those thugs, and although I think this occasion has been blown out of proportion, I believe England should have been thrown out out Euro 2000, but I fail to see what you think you'll achieve by basking in the pleasure of seeing England supporters misbehave. Maybe you should look closer to home before you critisise others. I know the real response you are after is "Yes sft42, you are right, Scottish people are just better than English people", but at your age, I think it's about time you grew up. QM - doesn't the fact that we were 3 minutes away from beating the European champions (who didn't play badly) suggest that we ARE a major force on the Euro/World stage?