yob

[stokemaveric]

so the 16 year old,shakilus townsend was a knife gang member,died crying out for his mother.....tough.....live by the sword die by the sword i say....it would have just been a matter of time before HE had killed someone.good riddance to bad rubbish..................

[obNOXious]

The problem is that yes a lot of these youths might well be black, but they are also from certain areas, which are by and large very disadvantaged areas, so you might as well make the conneciton that POOR children are more likely to involved in gang warfare as wiffey's 'tribes of africa'.
Race has NOTHING to do with it, deprivation, loss of hope and a lack of positive role models has everything to do with it, I know, I am white, brought up in the Falls, Belfast and was up to my neck in trouble, violent and otherwise, when I was younger.
And guess what? Not a black man in sight.shock horror.
Social problems have led to this phenomenen, not race, and to celebrate a child's death frankly brings you lower than any gang member.
There are ways to deal with this, and it's not by letting violence run rampant on the streets, it's by giving kids in those areas a chance for a far better future.

[styley]

Just because you say something factual about a certain race doesn't necessarily make you a racist. Also if the young guy was a knife wielder himself then he perhaps deserved it more than someone whom he may have knifed at some stage in the future.

[stokemaveric]

where DO you get your figures from oneeyedvic? 1 per 100,000 in the 10-29 year old age group.....mmmm but what about the FREQUENCY of knife attacks?it is ok saying that that is the statistic but the frequency blows all the figures out of the water doesnt it?

[stokemaveric]

good answer obnoxious but the troubles in northern ireland were religious troubles,that with the hatred of any english influence were there any black soldiers deployed there during the troubles?

[whiffey]

I agree with Nox, and as I have said many times on here, society needs to give a lot more money to the problem. These kids are poor and deprived - so give them money and they won't be. It is astonishingly simple. Just 1p on income tax. It really is that simple. I am not being sarky, 1p on income tax and they won't be poor any more. Why has this approach not been tried?

[Oneeyedvic]

sorry stoke, forgot about the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7421534.stm

One Scottish police officer told BBC News: "If you think you've got it bad down in London, you should take a look at Glasgow."

Scotland, and Glasgow in particular, has some frightening statistics when it comes to knife crime.

# Last year there were 73 murders in the Strathclyde Police force area, 40 of which involved knives

# Knife crime levels in Scotland are 3.5 times higher than in England or Wales

# Scotland has a homicide rate of 5.3 per 100,000 in the 10-to-29 age group, which compares with one per 100,000 in England and Wales

[obNOXious]

Actually, and I'll loathe myself for saying it stoke, a lot of the troubles were religious/ society/culturally based, but behind them was a lot of organised crime, gang warfare and general thuggery that used the mask of the troubles to prevail.
It really would be nice to to pretend that we were all idealistic young lads burning with passionate ideals about Ireland, but frankly we weren't, we were amongst other things just a lot of deprived kids who found their way in with older people who used us to their own ends, and the saddest part is that it's not until you remove yourself from the situation that you realise exactly how you've been played by those in your own community to their own dark ends.
This is why I passionately believe that if you offer hope and an alternative to people in a similar situation it will work, but the task is massive and as wiffey has just stated, not nearly available enough despite the minimal costs.

[jno]

Nox talks sense, as usual. Colour has nothing to do with it except in whiffey's mind (which is fixated on black men... takes all sorts, I suppose); poverty and low expectations do.

[stokemaveric]

WHIFFEY,millions of people,myself included have worked and still work,pay taxes why the hell should ANY taxpayers money go on this scum?they would probably blow it on drugs,booze etc etc.....i was poor when i was a kid along with millions of others and NO ONE ever gave me or any of us anything.we have had to work for everything we have got.if you had your way we would invite all the yobs to southampton for a world cruise on the aurora....actually its not a bad idea...as long as i could fire a cruise missile at it..... only joking............................

[stokemaveric]

nox you are right but who are using these kids nowadays?,yes you can now see that YOU and people like you were whipped up into such a hate filled frenzy by your elders against the british army [i apologise if i am wrong and that you were a loyalist] but then your hatred would have been directed at those south of the border,but all the same whichever way your loyalties lied you were still influenced by your own admission by someone else,for SOMETHING YOU BELIEVED IN,the kids of today have no such hate filled influences....i think that they just hate anything and everbody........

[obNOXious]

Well to be honest, I think it's reasonably apparent that they hate the society that they don't feel part of, and are doubtless encouraged to do so with a 'them and us brotherhood' style of persuasion by older gang members who will use them to off the opposition in rival gangs, fight for drugs territory and sell arms and weapons etc.
If you feel ostracised by soiety because of a lack of education, chance and an underprivilege, it doesn't take a genius to use that resentment to accomplish what they want. Gangs are appealing because you feel you belong, you feel valued and looked after, respected etc when in larger society, you feel an outcast, worthless, undervalued and generally sh1t on from a great height.
We need to give these kids a light at the end of the tunnel from a very early age, and make acceptance and success the norm for them and their community, then they won't feel the need to turn to those who cynically use them for approval and acceptance.
Then and only then will you see a reduction in the heartbreaking violence that is becoming the norm for so many kids from these areas. whilst violence is normalised you will get more and more of it and in more and more inventive and atrocious ways. De-normalise it in these areas and there's a way forward and the only way to do that is to improve chances and opportunities for these kids.

[whiffey]

I am not fixated on black men, but oh so very often the mugshot of the latest victim/murderer is .... oh well.

Yes they are poor and deprived - why ?

And why has nobody satisfactorily addressed my solution? 1p on income tax, loads of revenue, invest it in the deprived youths, and the problem has gone away. Now, what please is wrong with that? For most of us it would be less than �40 a month out of our pay packet.

[stokemaveric]

ok whiffey if you are that supportive of your idea why dont YOU give �40.00 per month out of your wages to your local area youth club?....as the advert says EVERY LITTLE HELPS.....

[obNOXious]

I'll stick a quid from my income tax quite happily whiffey if it was appropriately used, no question about it.
Like everything else, in a society, you get what you pay for. If you all want to greedily keep your money to yourselves then you'll get a social underclass with all of the inherant problems, if you are willing to invest some in a better society, then that's exactly what you'll get.

[jno]

so just how many mugshots of victims/murderers in Glasgow have you seen, whiffey? Just curious.

[whiffey]

No, not a quid Nox, �40, per head, and regularly via income tax. Why should the money be raised by charitable donations? It should be a public offering, each and every person in the country contributing equally (except for those not working of course). Poor and deprived people need money. Most of us have more than we need, they have not enough, it is starkly simple.

And not just a quid.

[stokemaveric]

well i certainly would NOT pay any extra to help underpin a social structure because parents cannot be responsible for their own thugs actions,by their own admission the parents of shakilus townsend DID NOT KNOW he was a member of a thug gang,im still glad it was him,no not glad im relieved,that it was someone like him that got what he deserved,and not some innocent well behaved kid that died probably by townsends own hand,in the not to distant future.....tragic as it is but as i have said live by the sword and die by the sword.......

[obNOXious]

Wiffey, you said a penny, I said a quid, which by reckoning is 100 times more than a penny, or is it my Irish genes again? :)

If we do this then it has to be enough and poverty is not the only issue here, we need a sensible community approach, better and adequate affordable housing, better education, better training and the creation of opportunity. I think a penny is way too little and that those of us who earn reasonable amounts need to contribute significantly towards society.

[stokemaveric]

so saint whiffey have you made your �40.00 donation yet?

[whiffey]

No, a penny in the pound on income tax, for each and every one of us, except those on benefits.