My heart goes out to this mans poor family

[Nosha123]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7860 342.stm

Just awful.... what is wrong with these scum bags?

I had a conversation with the Husband recently and pleaded with him that if he ever gets challenged or confronted by anyone - or is in a situation that could turn nasty - even something as simple as someone cutting you up on the road that I want him to just walk away and ignore it.. and to not get involved...

You just dont know these days if the other person is carrying a weapon... and if you believe the news.. most under 25s ARE!!!

Just so sad... poor family...

[horselady]

I agree, so tragic. I say that to my hubby too, but he says, he wouldn't be able to ignore it if someone started on at him, he wouldn't hit them, but he'd certainly speak up for himself and that could be all it takes---frightens me to death.

[bantingm]

That is one of the sadest things i have read in a long time, that poor man, and his poor family. what is the world coming to these days? i wouldnt dream of anything like that happeneing where i am but you can just never be too sure.

xxxx

[sandmaster]

Very tragic. But I bet even if the arrested person is found guilty he will get very little in the way of punishment.
And in my view prison should be just that. Forget about rehab.
At least until the sentence is nearly served.
I think cold blooded murderers should be hanged anyway.

[Nosha123]

With you Sandman.. what possible rehabilitation is there for someone who murders a man out with his 3yr old ona bus for hells sake...

cut their balls off too! With no anaesthetic!

WHen are the govt going to take SERIOUS action?? Every single day kids are murdering kids and stabbing and shooting people... when will it end?

Such little respect for life. It brings me close to tears imaging the wife having just given birth on one of her happiest days ever not even knowing her poor daughter has just seen her daddy murdered. Where is the sense in it

[Gormless]

I know that area very well. I would never go there in darkness, all you can see are the whites of eyes. A strange area, travel just 1/2 mile through the Whitgift Centre to South Croydon, and it feels like a different (better) world.

West Croydon is bad news. Poor man. 6pm is hardly late at night.

[Oneeyedvic]

You just dont know these days if the other person is carrying a weapon... and if you believe the news.. most under 25s ARE!!!

I interact with the police a fair bit since I chair a neighbourhood meeting which involves the police.

Earlier this week at the meeting, a young chap (aged around 15-16) was talking about the gang culture and how all the kids had weapons.

In fact, the police confirmed that this is not the case and showed how the majority of kids who were stopped and searched were not carrying anything that could be used as a weapon.

Perception is a dangerous thing (especially in the hands of the media).

Back to the original topic - yes it is very sad - and unfortunately there is not much that can be done. People can cry out for harsher punishments etc, but many countries with harsher penalties (eg death penalty) do not have that much variance in crime.

As a country we already put far too many people in jail. It costs a lot of money to put someone away (circa �30k a year) - I would much rather that this �30k was used to ensure that people didn't commit crimes in the first place (eg better education).

[Nosha123]

I think also Oneeyedvic it depends on what part of the country you live in
have you been to West Croydon recently???
Or Tooting?
Or Southall??

The police have reported that in London their stop and search campaigns have resulted in a huge drop in people carrying knives.... so in other words.. before the campaign.. there were lots of young people carrying them!

Media?

I dont think so!

[Nosha123]

the cost to keep someone in prison for 1 year is also nearer �60,000 not �30,000

[jake-the-peg]

I can't understand why the papers aren't pointing out that you've a higher chance of being murdered in Canada or in Australia or even in that hot bed of crime Iceland.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_perc ap-crime-murders-per-capita

Anyone would think they had a political agenda!

[anotheoldgit]

It would seem that apart from oneeyedvic we would all like the savages who committed this horrible crime to receive a very stiff sentence.

I interact with the police a fair bit since I chair a neighbourhood meeting which involves the police.

Judging by the posts you put on this site I do not think you are the right type of person to take on this job, you are hardly an impartial type of person.

Perhaps you would like to see these 'little darlings', given a lecture and released back onto the streets, maybe to kill again?

[anotheoldgit]

Perhaps jake-the-peg you would like to repeat this little fact to the poor man's widow?

I am sure it would give her and her family very much comfort.

You make me sick.

[Nosha123]

hug the hoodies!!!! yay

[Oneeyedvic]

Judging by the posts you put on this site I do not think you are the right type of person to take on this job, you are hardly an impartial type of person.

Firstly, you don't actually know what the job is, so I am unsure as to how you can rationalise that I am unsuitable.

Secondly, can you tell me what is the 'right type of person'.

Someone who collects Nazi memorabilia?

Someone who looks at foreign people with distrust and can't understand them?

I was elected to the position of chair person and that maybe because I can actually rationalise a point of view and look into it rather than just rely on rubbish in the papers.

Nosha - glad to see that you agree that there are not as many people young people carrying knives.

[Oneeyedvic]

the cost to keep someone in prison for 1 year is also nearer �60,000 not �30,000

Where did you get this from?

Scottish prison service: http://www.sps.gov.uk/default.aspx?documentid= B08BF1B6-292B-4B39-B850-0EE5A87924BD The average cost per prisoner place in 2007-2008 was �32,358

and from this report: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200 708/cmhansrd/cm080311/text/80311w0038.htm

Open prisons cost �20,687 per person to category A prisoners costing �47,613

[Nosha123]

Oneyedvic - not sure if you are trying to twist my words or not ;-)

BUT..There are less youths in London carrying knives SINCE the POLICE started their stop and search campaigns.. hence.. there were more kids carrying weapons until this new task force came into action.. therefore there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

There is DEFINATELY a gang culture issue in this country that needs addressing...

AND it definately needs sorting... Carrying of a lethal weapon should determine an instant prison sentence. If they are prepared to carry them how do we know they are not planning on using them!
Violent crime and burglary is likely to worsen now that the credit crunch kicks in (and figures show it is already rising!). Too many innocent people have been murdered and too many youths have lost their lives with opposition gangs. THERE is a problem!
No point ignoring it or it WILL get worse

[Oneeyedvic]

There are less youths in London carrying knives SINCE the POLICE started their stop and search campaigns.. hence.. there were more kids carrying weapons until this new task force came into action.. therefore there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Yes, so the police are addressing the situation and it is working.

I mentioned a meeting I was in this week - where the police confirmed that kids are not carrying knives - something which you yourself seem to have agreed with.

Carrying of a lethal weapon should determine an instant prison sentence.

2 things - what is a lethal weapon? Have you heard of a millwall brick? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_brick
Would you suggest people carrying papers should be banned (hmmm, maybe not such a bad idea!)

And do you know of anyone on the frontline? A friend of mine (who was a DI in the Met) said that the automatic 5 year jail sentence of people carrying a gun was one of the worst decisions for policing - since it meant that if you were armed you were more likely to use the weapon since you were going to prison anyway.

[Gormless]

Can you just not see the hilarious way this discussion is going?

There are too many too lock up, so that is not an option, besides, if you threaten to lock them up then it makes them more likely to use their weapons. So, leave them alone!

I have said and believed this for ages - while they stab and shoot each other I am not concerned (really, I am not), but when their tribal violence drags in innocent bystanders, that is when I think they should be savagely and firmly sat upon.

Respect, innit?

[Oneeyedvic]

anotheoldgit Perhaps jake-the-peg you would like to repeat this little fact to the poor man's widow?

I am sure it would give her and her family very much comfort.

You make me sick.

Do you think commenting on how you used to collect Nazi badges to someone who lost family in the Holocaust would be sick? http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/History/Questio n509260.html

Or is that different?

Or would you say to the widow: "Well, don't worry, you're young enough to get another husband"
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question66 6405.html
The mother is only 18, so there is plenty of time for her to have other children.

[Oneeyedvic]

GormlessThere are too many too lock up, so that is not an option, besides, if you threaten to lock them up then it makes them more likely to use their weapons. So, leave them alone!

Who said leave them alone?

I refer to my previous answer: I would much rather that this �30k was used to ensure that people didn't commit crimes in the first place (eg better education).