Philip Lawrence

[flanker]

I hear that the low life that murdered Philip Lawrence is to be moved to an open prison to be nearer his mum as he misses her.

 

At least he gets to see his mum again - personally, I feel this fetid stinking miserable excuse for a human should be left to wallow in his own waste in a windowless cold damp dark cell for the rest of his worthless life.

 

Is this harsh? 

[Peter Pedant]

Yeah sorry Philip Lawrence was the head master, the fella who went out to break up a skool fight and got skewered by one of his own pupils.

Steven Lawrence - were his killers ever brought to book?

[flanker]

I do not believe in the death sentence - and nowhere in my posts have I even alluded to an agreement with the death sentence.

 

However, I fervently believe that for the most heinous of crimes we should not afford any human rights to these sub-humans.

 

And I know you shouldn't, but let's take it to a personal level - can the bleeding heart liberals really, hand on bleeding heart, say honestly that if what happened to Philip Lawrence was in fact one of their loved ones, they wouldn't want the person to have a life of hell.  

[WaldoMcFroog]

"However, I fervently believe that for the most heinous of crimes we should not afford any human rights to these sub-humans."

 

Fine. But then don't complain when your own rights are ignored. It's far easier and more logical to give universal human rights rather than to apply them in an arbitrary way.

 

"And I know you shouldn't, but let's take it to a personal level - can the bleeding heart liberals really, hand on bleeding heart, say honestly that if what happened to Philip Lawrence was in fact one of their loved ones, they wouldn't want the person to have a life of hell."

 

Which is precisely why the people involved do not make legal decisions. They're manifestly not objective.

[flanker]

Yes, but what do you think - would you be of the same opinion if it was a loved one?

[thewillow]

I'm with Waldo all the way.  These Daily Mail-reading throwbacks must be very poorly educated.

[flanker]

What the hell has The Daily Mail got to do with anything?

[WaldoMcFroog]

"Yes, but what do you think - would you be of the same opinion if it was a loved one?"

 

Perfectly possibly - I have no way of knowing. But that merely underlines my incapacity to be objective.

[flanker]

Thank you.

[cruthinboy]

There we have it then - disagree with a liberal and they draw upon their heritage of tolerance and respect for others' opinions to call you "poorly educated". They are so convinced - despite the dearth of evidence - that their system is the finest known to humanity, that they simply cannot brook any opposition without resorting to personal insults.

 

[WaldoMcFroog]

Please don't say 'thank you' as though it proves your point - it patantly does nothing of the sort. I cannot even see a leap of logic that allows that conclusion.

 

cruthinboy, "They simply cannot brook any opposition without resorting to personal insults." I certainly haven't - the most 'aggressive' I've been is to suggest someone re-read a post! Nor have I called you or anyone else 'poorly educated'. But I have rebutted every point thrown against the argument that human rights shouldn't be universal, and I would like to think that I have done so in a logical manner. Hardly a 'dearth of evidence' when the attitude of the 'remove their rights' posters have been shown to be arbitrary and likely to incite ire if it occured in reverse.

Ultimately, if you think that's reasonable, then I'm unlikely to convince you otherwise, but to my mind your system is both illogical and inhumane.

[jimmer]

but the law shouldn't take things personally flanker and that's the point. you make an emotive argument: 

"...can the bleeding heart liberals really, hand on bleeding heart, say honestly that if what happened to Philip Lawrence was in fact one of their loved ones, they wouldn't want the person to have a life of hell..."

Well first and foremost i'm glad i live in a country where it is extremely unlikely that it ever will happen. If i lived in a country where they do treat prisoners as you suggest would i be in a safer country? no. Call me liberal if you must, but i think that we should treat everyone with at least a minimum level of respect and attempt to rehabilitate as many convicted criminals as possible in the selfish interest of everyone.

 

jim

[flanker]

Sorry - I should've expanded - I said thank you as you conceded that you may, just possibly, feel differently were a loved one affected.

 

Cruthinboy was not having a pop at you - your posts have been reasoned and well argued (that is not meant to be patronising - honestly), but being called uneducated by thewillow for having a perfectly valid opinion, albeit contrary to his/her opinion, is a bit silly.

 

Oh, and I've never read The Daily Mail in my life. 

[cruthinboy]

Waldo, it was thewillow who called us "poorly educated" - products of the liberal post-War education system perhaps?

I don't have a "system" as such, I merley challenge liberals when they defend a system which -  at best -has not prevented wars, famine, hatred, intolerance, substance abuse, depression, family break-up ... general human misery.

 

 

[cruthinboy]

I should add that when I use the term "liberal" I am employing irony since most liberals are the least liberal people you could meet ... if you don't agree with them!

 

[WaldoMcFroog]

cruthinboy - yes, but you made a blanket statement about liberals, hence I took umbrage!

[WaldoMcFroog]

"Sorry - I should've expanded - I said thank you as you conceded that you may, just possibly, feel differently were a loved one affected." My apologies then, I felt that that was the subtext, and disagreed!

[cruthinboy]

Another blanket statement about liberals coming up I'm afraid Waldo - they do have a tendency to take umbrage!

I've been cold shouldered at work or in social settings because I have politely expressed an opinion in a informal, friendly-seeming discussion on matters e.g. abortion, capital punishment, which is deemed illiberal! And I do mean people refusing to talk to me afterwards, or refusing to go to after work social gatherings if I was going to be there!

[WaldoMcFroog]

cruthinboy - well, if 'your lot' will insist on being wrong about everything, what do you expect? (joke)

[cruthinboy]

Some of this bleedin' "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"  your lot are always going on about would be nice!

[ll_billym]

I think cruthinboy is great.  Up and at 'em my son!!!