The mad Mullahs triumph

[Bobbisox]

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ,has rallied his supporter in Tehrans main square, thousand upon thousands are chanting support for this despot who want to wipe the state of Israel off the map, who has said the Holocaust didn't happen, he is only there as President because the crazy Mullahs decree he has to be to keep a grip on their fanatacism, I have two Iranian friends, they are shocked at the outcome of this"rigged" election, they told me the majority of the Iranian people want change to a pro democratic society

[jno]

he isn't an Islamic hardliner, though he's a strong nationalist; and as I understand it the mullahs don't like him much at all. I don't know if the election was rigged or not, but it sounds suspicious.

[birdie1971]

Infundibulum -

You asked of Bobbisox when he/she stated that, �this despot who want to wipe the state of Israel off the map�

�Got ANY proof of that , Bobbisox?�

Seeing as Bobbisox has not yet replied to your idiotic question, I shall attempt to answer it on his/her behalf. I hope that he/she does not mind me doing this.

First, the Iranian Government does want Israel wiped off the map. Individual Iranians may not agree but this is irrelevant � the re-elected Ahmadinejad wants this to happen.

How do I know this? Because I am familiar with the Islamic religion. And Ahmadinejad being a fundamentalist Muslim must, by definition, want the state of Israel wiped from the map. I say 'must' because that is what he is compelled to think by Islam. If you want me to elaborate on why fundamental Islam wants Israel erased, I shall provide you with an explanation � but I suspect you already know.

Secondly, Iran provides military and financial support to Hamas. One of the stated aims of Hamas is as follows:

�'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

The above quote is taken from 'The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement' and was issued on August 18, 1988. This Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic Hamas goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad.

The goals of Hamas since 1988 have not changed.


So Infundibulum, Got ANY proof of Iran NOT wanting to destroy Israel?

[Kromovaracun]

. He is the president so, in effect, what he says goes.

The Iranian president wields little true power.

The real power in Iran lies with the Ayatollah.

[rov1200]

His re-election means that Western governments can now expand their nuclear arsenals and spend �billions on newer rocket installations. Star wars must be in its infancy, I hope its not sited near to us.

[Bobbisox]

thank you birdie for answering on my behalf, I could not of put the message over any better, it is the Ayatollah who rules Iran with an iron fist, if he sees his grip on this Islamic state weakened, he will, through the Mullahs, get through to the "frightened ones"

[Julnar]

I am slightly suspicious of Iranian exiles opinions on the election as they are undoubtedly not supporters of the revolution and may be from families that backed the old Shah's regime. If this is the case, they are bound to be 'spinning' against the election.

I am concerned that Ahmadinejad has been re-elected as his anti semitic rhetoric is both unpleasant and frightening. However, I do not believe Iran will make any overt military moves against Israel. Iran is definitely strong enough to defend itself against any invaders, but I do not believe it is militarily able to threaten Israel. Iran's continued financial support of Hamas??? ( I thought they supported Hezbollah) will remain a thorn in Israel and many Arab republics side, however.

[Bobbisox]

Few people, including most Iranians, believe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was legitimately re-elected as President of a country now in turmoil.

The scale of victory on a high turnout expected to benefit main rival Mir Hossein Mousavi is deeply suspicious, so it's no surprise the opposition feels cheated.

Tehran is a tinderbox with pro and antiAhmadinejad protesters fighting for the nation's ear - a test of wills that could see blood spilled on the streets.

We may never learn the truth in an Iran divided between the secular young and professionals in cities and the rural conservatives still under the sway of the Ayatollahs.

[Bobbisox]

an excerpt from todays Mirror

[birdie1971]

Infundibulum - Ha, ha. Your Times link made me laugh. You think this article 'proves' that Hamas does not want Israel destroyed? This quote direct from Khaled Mashaal himself...

�We agree to a (Palestinian) state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognising Israel�

So how does that work then? Hamas refuses to recognise Israel. Even though the state of Israel is a physical entity. Hmmm.



OK. How about these quotes made on 14th May 2008. They come from Mahmoud al-Zahar, co-founder of Hamas and a member of the Hamas leadership.

�[Hamas] will continue to persecute the Zionists wherever they are, after we prove that the Zionist army can be defeated - contrary to what was believed in the past, that it is impossible to beat the Zionists.�

�After we defeat the Zionists we will persecute them� we will persecute them to eternity, and the sun of the freedom and independence of the Palestinians will burn all of the Zionists.�


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=121 0668634777&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFu ll

To summarise:
1) Iran fund and support Hamas.
2) Hamas want to destroy Israel and every Jewish person within.
3) Therefore, the current Iranian government wants the see the destruction of Israel.

QED.

[birdie1971]

Infundibulum

Just in case you are in any doubt as to the validity of my last post, I would like to draw an analogy.

Let's take a hypothetical situation. Let's go crazy and suggest something unthinkable. Err... okay, the USA wants to invade a middle-eastern country and build illegal detention centres on some Caribbean island somewhere and put 'illegal combatants' into them. Daft eh? You couldn't make it up.

Anyway, let's run with it and see where it goes...


So the USA invade Iraq and build their detention centres and the UK offers and gives their support.

Some people ask, �Does the UK support the illegal detention (under the Geneva Convention) of personnel?�

�Absolutely NOT!�, responds an indignant UK official. �We do not condone the illegal detention of anyone, blah, blah, blah....�


But is that true?

If you aid and abet someone in committing any act then you must accept responsibility for their actions. Especially if you are fully aware of what they're up to � 'Extraordinary Rendition' is a good example of the UK government's willingness to 'play ball' with the USA.


The UK government was guilty of supporting the illegal detainment and torture of personnel because they knew it was going on.

Iran is guilty of supporting the destruction of Israel by supporting Hamas because Iran are fully aware of Hamas's goals.


Actions speak louder that words.

[birdie1971]

What sort of 'proof' to you want me to provide infundibulum?

A sworn statement perhaps? Or maybe a covert recording of Ahmadinejad saying, �I want the Israeli Zionists wiped off the map. This is Ahmadinejad. No, it really is! Honest!!!�

What, for you, would constitute proof?

I assume you are able to follow a rational argument. What part is confusing you?

1) Iran supports Hamas. Do you accept that? Yes or No?

2) Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Do you accept that? Yes or No?


If the answer to both 1 and 2 are 'YES' then we can stop talking.

You cannot dispute (1) as it a verifiable fact. The UN knows it. NATA knows it. And boy, does Hamas know it... every country in the middle-east knows it!

Which leaves (2). If you think that Hamas does not want to wipe Israel off the map then please post your evidence.


When you concluded that both (1) and (2) are true, it is impossible to escape the conclusion that Iran wants to see the destruction of Israel.


Do try to keep up.

[birdie1971]

NATA should read NATO.

Sorry.

Typo.