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War in Afganistan
3 more soldiers dead, where is it going to end?. Devasted families for what? An unwillable war.
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The missions these soldiers are being sent on can only be described as suicide missions. With bombs buried everywhere how can they possibly avoid them. Our tactics must be wrong, to die in vain without even seeing the enemy is futile. With over 200,000 Afghans trained up they should take over these tasks. The Afghan tribes must know who the Taliban are and where the bombs are planted. We should revert to a safe distance and let the Afghans do this dirty work.
Speaking of Russians - they had an army of twenty-million plus and had to leave Afghanistan with no discernable victory in sight.
And just what would constitute a 'victory'? There is constant nonsensical Bish-isms about 'getting the job done', but what is 'the job', and who gave it to Britain?
If anyone seriously believes that any acts of terrorism on the UK mainland can, or have been, avoided by the 'war' in Afghanistan, then they are dreaming. The way to prevent suicide bombers from entereing your country is to neogotiate and try and explore the cultural differences between us - not to invade and occupy another people.
Have we learned nothing from Viet Nam?
And just what would constitute a 'victory'? There is constant nonsensical Bish-isms about 'getting the job done', but what is 'the job', and who gave it to Britain?
If anyone seriously believes that any acts of terrorism on the UK mainland can, or have been, avoided by the 'war' in Afghanistan, then they are dreaming. The way to prevent suicide bombers from entereing your country is to neogotiate and try and explore the cultural differences between us - not to invade and occupy another people.
Have we learned nothing from Viet Nam?
Andy
The way to prevent suicide bombers from entereing your country is to neogotiate and try and explore the cultural differences between us -
We know what the cultural differences are, so I fear that is not going to help except to accept the wide gap between them and as for negotiate, try telling that to Israel and Hamas.
However I do have sympathy with your argument.
Bush and Blair and to a less extent the UN got us into this and at the moment an exit strategy does not seem to be available.
Who knows, whether or not the Afghan war has or has not diminished the terrorist attacks on mainland UK as we do not have any idea as to the number of attacks had there been no Afghan conflict.
The decision was made to invade and now we have to see it through.
Important decisions are always the most difficult, some are right and others wrong.
Indecision is the great enemy.....in my opinion.
The way to prevent suicide bombers from entereing your country is to neogotiate and try and explore the cultural differences between us -
We know what the cultural differences are, so I fear that is not going to help except to accept the wide gap between them and as for negotiate, try telling that to Israel and Hamas.
However I do have sympathy with your argument.
Bush and Blair and to a less extent the UN got us into this and at the moment an exit strategy does not seem to be available.
Who knows, whether or not the Afghan war has or has not diminished the terrorist attacks on mainland UK as we do not have any idea as to the number of attacks had there been no Afghan conflict.
The decision was made to invade and now we have to see it through.
Important decisions are always the most difficult, some are right and others wrong.
Indecision is the great enemy.....in my opinion.
I think this covers it well,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1207 005/Forget-lies-leaders-This-utterly-ill-conce ived-conflict-does-NOTHING-protect-terrorism.h tml
Since none of our politicians will listen to public opinion, the time has come for some kind of mass demonstration or civil protests, such as the American people took over Vietnam, that brought that useless war to an end.
Let's not be fobbed off with further excuses why we are there.
First it was to seek out that mystical figure Usama bin Laden.
Then, to destroy the Poppy fields to stop the end product of drugs making there way onto the streets of Britain.
Then to destroy the terrorist training camps.
Then to build hearts and minds thus helping the Afghan people rebuild their country, and provide them with a dam and schools,
Then we were there to help train the Afghan Army so that they could in time take over from us.
Then it was to prevent terrorist attacks on mainland Britain.
I think the latest is to make sure that their election is carried out as peacefully as possible.
We have heard it all from our politicians of all parties, and the wasteful killing and maiming of young lives go on and on, 50, 100, 150, 200, how long before the next mile stone is reached.
The bottom line is that we cannot pull out, while we are still subservient to the US. If the rest of NATO can make their own decisions on troop deployments why can't we?
I say pull out now, use our troops for the purpose they are employed i.e. the defence of the mother country, and then I say to the Taliban come on over, we are ready for you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1207 005/Forget-lies-leaders-This-utterly-ill-conce ived-conflict-does-NOTHING-protect-terrorism.h tml
Since none of our politicians will listen to public opinion, the time has come for some kind of mass demonstration or civil protests, such as the American people took over Vietnam, that brought that useless war to an end.
Let's not be fobbed off with further excuses why we are there.
First it was to seek out that mystical figure Usama bin Laden.
Then, to destroy the Poppy fields to stop the end product of drugs making there way onto the streets of Britain.
Then to destroy the terrorist training camps.
Then to build hearts and minds thus helping the Afghan people rebuild their country, and provide them with a dam and schools,
Then we were there to help train the Afghan Army so that they could in time take over from us.
Then it was to prevent terrorist attacks on mainland Britain.
I think the latest is to make sure that their election is carried out as peacefully as possible.
We have heard it all from our politicians of all parties, and the wasteful killing and maiming of young lives go on and on, 50, 100, 150, 200, how long before the next mile stone is reached.
The bottom line is that we cannot pull out, while we are still subservient to the US. If the rest of NATO can make their own decisions on troop deployments why can't we?
I say pull out now, use our troops for the purpose they are employed i.e. the defence of the mother country, and then I say to the Taliban come on over, we are ready for you.
Not quite sure I see your point. Are not the 200 deaths over 5 years ? So what about the fishermen ? Far more die but do you worry about that?
There is no conscription to go to Afghanistan, people choose it for whatever reason.
And if you are wooly headed enough to think that Afghanistan does not hise terrorists that woul dealy love to blow us all to bits than think again.
As for being unwinnable it depends on what your objective is. Not all war is a straight your dead I'm not.
There is no conscription to go to Afghanistan, people choose it for whatever reason.
And if you are wooly headed enough to think that Afghanistan does not hise terrorists that woul dealy love to blow us all to bits than think again.
As for being unwinnable it depends on what your objective is. Not all war is a straight your dead I'm not.
Very good AOG
Then what?
Obviously the extreme Islamists would take control of the country?
How long do you think it would be before Al Qaeda training camps would be back?
Filled no doubt with those who used to farm poppies - who's farms you've just destroyed - Roll up roll up for suicide mission revenge.
Or do you think everybody would just say "Oh better not do that again - they might get cross next time"
Anybody who thinks we should just pull out needs to explain what would happen in the country.
In short.
Why is it safe to withdraw?
I've not yet seen a good answer to that question from any one on this site or elsewhere.
Then what?
Obviously the extreme Islamists would take control of the country?
How long do you think it would be before Al Qaeda training camps would be back?
Filled no doubt with those who used to farm poppies - who's farms you've just destroyed - Roll up roll up for suicide mission revenge.
Or do you think everybody would just say "Oh better not do that again - they might get cross next time"
Anybody who thinks we should just pull out needs to explain what would happen in the country.
In short.
Why is it safe to withdraw?
I've not yet seen a good answer to that question from any one on this site or elsewhere.
AOG
A million of us took to the streets in 2003 to protest against the impending Iraq war. What good did that do?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm
A million of us took to the streets in 2003 to protest against the impending Iraq war. What good did that do?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm
jake-the-peg
Obviously the extreme Islamists would take control of the country?
Aren't they already in control, don't be naive we certainly are not, and aren't Islam extremists already and also capable of taking control of other countries apart from Afghanistan?
How long do you think it would be before Al Qaeda training camps would be back?
Are they not also in Pakistan and other countries, are you saying we should also invade these as well?
Filled no doubt with those who used to farm poppies - who's farms you've just destroyed
Did I actually say destroy the poppy fields, I said that was the intention of the powers that be, when they made the excuse for being in Afghanistan.
Why is it safe to withdraw?
Because it is unsafe not to do so.
Afghanistan has been around for many years, and will still be around after we do the inevitable, and that is to withdraw.
We have in our past history had one or two cracks at this wilderness of a country, followed more recently by the whole of the mighty Russian forces. What make you or anyone else think that a favourable outcome will come out of this present venture?
Obviously the extreme Islamists would take control of the country?
Aren't they already in control, don't be naive we certainly are not, and aren't Islam extremists already and also capable of taking control of other countries apart from Afghanistan?
How long do you think it would be before Al Qaeda training camps would be back?
Are they not also in Pakistan and other countries, are you saying we should also invade these as well?
Filled no doubt with those who used to farm poppies - who's farms you've just destroyed
Did I actually say destroy the poppy fields, I said that was the intention of the powers that be, when they made the excuse for being in Afghanistan.
Why is it safe to withdraw?
Because it is unsafe not to do so.
Afghanistan has been around for many years, and will still be around after we do the inevitable, and that is to withdraw.
We have in our past history had one or two cracks at this wilderness of a country, followed more recently by the whole of the mighty Russian forces. What make you or anyone else think that a favourable outcome will come out of this present venture?
youngmafbog
Not quite sure I see your point. Are not the 200 deaths over 5 years ? So what about the fishermen ? Far more die but do you worry about that?
Well what a pathetic, if not totally insensitive analogy to all those young men & women who have laid their lives down for Queen & Country and in turn for the likes of you.
Try saying this to the Wives, Mothers & Fathers, other relatives and friends of those servicemen & women who have fell.
And no I am not woolly headed enough (as you so rudely put it) to think that Afghanistan does not have terrorists that would dearly love to blow us all to bits, but I am sensible enough to think that the terrorist that we should first root out are our own home grown ones.
Incidentally have another read through that 3rd paragraph of yours and seek out your mistakes, perhaps you would be better employed doing that.
As for being unwinnable it depends on what your objective is. Not all war is a straight your dead I'm not.
Far from it, it is hands up, you beat us, we give up, and then we can all live together in peace.
Get real, this ain't going to happen.
Not quite sure I see your point. Are not the 200 deaths over 5 years ? So what about the fishermen ? Far more die but do you worry about that?
Well what a pathetic, if not totally insensitive analogy to all those young men & women who have laid their lives down for Queen & Country and in turn for the likes of you.
Try saying this to the Wives, Mothers & Fathers, other relatives and friends of those servicemen & women who have fell.
And no I am not woolly headed enough (as you so rudely put it) to think that Afghanistan does not have terrorists that would dearly love to blow us all to bits, but I am sensible enough to think that the terrorist that we should first root out are our own home grown ones.
Incidentally have another read through that 3rd paragraph of yours and seek out your mistakes, perhaps you would be better employed doing that.
As for being unwinnable it depends on what your objective is. Not all war is a straight your dead I'm not.
Far from it, it is hands up, you beat us, we give up, and then we can all live together in peace.
Get real, this ain't going to happen.
Unfortunately, the bottom line is:
AOG has a valid point and puts it over well.
youngmafbog has a valid point and puts it over well.
Jake has a valid point and puts it over well..
So where do you go from here?
I am glad that I do not have to make that decision and if I was, then I would want more than �100,000 per year+ EXPENSES.
AOG has a valid point and puts it over well.
youngmafbog has a valid point and puts it over well.
Jake has a valid point and puts it over well..
So where do you go from here?
I am glad that I do not have to make that decision and if I was, then I would want more than �100,000 per year+ EXPENSES.
Jake - there were no terrorist actions in the UK until the UK invaded.
How would you expect the UK to respond if an army invaded our shores and tried to enforce it's political and social ideas on us as a nation. We might be a bit miffed. We might retaliate with what ever means we have at our disposal.
The Afghan people are not Al Qaeda, they want to be left alone to live their lives, and who are we to interfere? Pursuasion - fine - Force - futile.
It only needs one dissafected Muslim extremist in this country to blow up innocent people,a nd if the government really believe that an invasion force will not encourage that process, asa wel as fail to prevent a level of hostility that dedmands retribution for innocent lives lost, then they are even more stupid and pig-headed than I thought.
Oops - they are!
How would you expect the UK to respond if an army invaded our shores and tried to enforce it's political and social ideas on us as a nation. We might be a bit miffed. We might retaliate with what ever means we have at our disposal.
The Afghan people are not Al Qaeda, they want to be left alone to live their lives, and who are we to interfere? Pursuasion - fine - Force - futile.
It only needs one dissafected Muslim extremist in this country to blow up innocent people,a nd if the government really believe that an invasion force will not encourage that process, asa wel as fail to prevent a level of hostility that dedmands retribution for innocent lives lost, then they are even more stupid and pig-headed than I thought.
Oops - they are!
AOG
Timeline of the proposed Afghanistan pipeline project
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline _timeline.htm
If the situation in Afghanistan improves, the pipeline project will be resurrected.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.st m
Some people believe this the the real reason the US and Britain persists in Afghanistan.
Timeline of the proposed Afghanistan pipeline project
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline _timeline.htm
If the situation in Afghanistan improves, the pipeline project will be resurrected.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.st m
Some people believe this the the real reason the US and Britain persists in Afghanistan.
