How can we punish public bodies better

[jake-the-peg]

Last year Thames valley Police allowed an officer to continue working with firearms despite having failed a firearms course. He mistakenly loaded a pistol with live ammunition from an old Quality Street box and a civillian got shot and had 2 weeks in intesive care and serious damage to internal organs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8272110.stm

They were fined £40,000 - Which comes out of their budget inevitably reducing the service we get from them.

Surely there's a better way to publish public bodies that that?

[Gromit]

What always annoys me about such cases is that everyone keeps their job or grade. A monetary fine is a bit irrelevant if the fine is paid by someone else (us). If the person responsible for this man's supervision was demoted, then others would be more vidulent and hopefully such 'accidents' would be less likely to happen.

It still amazes me that a man can be shot in the head 8 times on the tube, and everyone involved keeps their job and no one accepts responsibility.

[R1Geezer]

Well that's a Blue Geezer Badge right there, Gromit, well done you have excelled yourself! Sorry Jake but I needed to reward talent!

[jake-the-peg]

It's not the Stockwell shooting that people needed sacking for it's all the lies that followed

You remember - padded jackets, jumping the barriers - all that stuff.

Shooting an innocent was an accident - lying to the public about it was not

[China Doll]

Demotion? Pay decrease?

(Incidently, I only came on this thread as I wanted to know why Jake was commeninting on punishing 'pubic' bodies... Should have gone to spec savers)

[jake-the-peg]

I think your Freudian slip is showing China

[China Doll]

Yes... Having read that back I should say it's time for me to go hide under a rock somewhere.... ;0)

[LazyGun]

Having only read the article linked to, I can,t determine how good a firearms instructor this individual was, nor do I have any personal experience of firearms training other than the most basic relating to air rifles and shotguns - but the systems in place ( keeping ammo in an old tin, no way to distinguish between live and blank ammo etc, no records/ receipts kept etc), pointing of a weapon directly at one of his audience, then pulling the trigger whilst still aiming at the individual - These all sound highly unprofessional and highly theatrical procedures to me.

He should be punished, of course he should - He was very lucky that one of his own colleagues didn't die as a direct result of this instructors actions.Given his failure of the course or part of the course, should he have been instructing at all? I don't know enough, but it doesn't sound professional.

And jtp is right - Is a fine the most appropriate way to punish a public body? The problem is trying to think of a suitable alternative, that effectively punishes the transgressors, penalising them sufficiently that they will genuinely seek out and instigate improvements, without effecting their operational budget and consequently reducing their service levels to the public.

[jake-the-peg]

The Police force is at fault here Dan - it's pretty clear someone who behaves this way is totally unsuitable to handle firearms. They're not contesting the fault.

The point is there needs to be a punishment that's smarter than a fine - I don't know what that is hence the question looking for good ideas.

I guess one point is identifying which officers within the force were at fault. Certainly to some extent the Chief Constable does bear overall responsibility but so too will other officers.

For them to escape unpunished for their failure to properly oversee the people below them whilst the force as a body is fined in their stead is mind numbingly stupid.

It's like Basil Fawlty beating his car that wouldn't start

I would suggest in such cases perhaps another force or body should investigate and report on the failures involved. Action has to be taken against individuals not organisations.