Ken Livingstone - Nazi Jibe.

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Do you think Ken Livingstone should apologise for the Nazi jibe?

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I do not think anyone should apologise for anything unless it is truly meant & sincere.

I think KL's comments to the reportr were rather silly, seeing as he's in the public eye. But I do feel they were said in haste & meant in the same way as "You are being a bully - aren't you?".

Personally, if it were me, I would apologise to anyone I may have upset or offended by my comments - except of course the very people who make money out of such things - the newpapers!

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*reporter

[WoWo]

Perhaps if the report was offended he should get himself another job. One where he doesn't badger people to the point they might get a bit ****** off after leaving a private party to have a microphone stuck up their nose.

I don't have strong views about KL either way but I can't see why he should say sorry for using a perfectly legitimate analogy. That being that you should'nt defend your behaviour behind the excuse your only doing your job, the most striking example being the ones used by the Nazi concentration camp guards that they were just following orders.

Sadly all this does is the water down any genuine concerns of anti semitism.

[THECORBYLOON]

How can anyone justify the remarks made by Ken Livingstone? Millions of innocent Jews were murdered by the Nazis and no-one doing a regular job such as that of a photographer deserves to be compared to a concentration camp guard. Mr Livingstone has admitted the remarks may be offensive but denies they were racist. He made the guard jibe after the photographer telt him he was Jewish so how can it NOT be racist?

[El D]

what are you talking about?

 

Millions of innocent Jews were murdered by the Nazis

correct

and no-one doing a regular job such as that of a photographer deserves to be compared to a concentration camp guard

a non sequitur, but aside from that the point is that concentration camp guards thought they were doing a regular job also.

Mr Livingstone has admitted the remarks may be offensive

may being the operative word. Depends on your sensibilities. My guess is that the reporter is not offended at all but has used his heritage and the atrocity of the holocaust to get a story out of KL. Delightful chap. Don't we all feel sorry for him?

but denies they were racist. He made the guard jibe after the photographer telt him he was Jewish so how can it NOT be racist? 

 

So anything connecting the Nazis and Judaism is racist is it? I seriously wonder if you have progressed past the last 50 years of history. Hiding behind past atrocities is equally distasteful in my opinion.
 


 

[newtron]

I don't think it was racist.  KL was already heading down that road when he asked if the reporter was a german war criminal and he stuck to the analogy regardless of the reporters race.  It is obvious that he would have said the same thing whether or not the reporter was jewish.  He made no distinction between race, which is the exact opposite of racism.  

[Heraldeer]

If he's already intimated he won't apologise because he believes he was right in what he said, surely an apology now would be hollow and pointless anyway?

[smudge]

Makes me laugh - Tony Bliar is now saying that KL should apologise & move on.

Shame he can't follow his own advice - but move out!

[luckyboy]

The media are riding on that big moral horse again, its getting silly now, a man cannot even lose his temper now, no way should livingstone be made to apologise, whatever you think of him politically, this type of media led bullying stinks to high heaven, another non story.offensive comment do me a favour. richard littlejohn not averse to the odd hundred offensive remarks and the rest of the media ******, are up in arms, yeah right, I hope he sticks to his guns on this one.

[slimfandango]

The transcript may be deceptive. IMHO I don't think Livingstone heard the reporter say he was jewish, I think he had started talking again as the reporter said it.
If he speaks in such a way in a public capacity, he should apologize, but he didn't, he was making a comment to someone in a personal manner, and the reporter was using a concealed mic, not on in my opinion.
I have real distaste for the reporter, who knows what Ken meant by his comments, but got them published because he knows we live in a knee jerk country.
Livingston did NOT make remarks about jews, or the holocaust. He was alluding directly to the blind obedience of Nazi camp guards...probably the best analogy I can think of for the conscience free way these reporters behave. Social psychology of blind obedience (informational and normative influence, Ash, Zimbardo, Milgram etc) was radically influenced by the curiosity about just how so many people could do something so wrong.
So the people the Nazis happened to be against were Jews....does this mean every comparison of someone with a nazi is an attack on jews? Just because they were connected in history? Don't be silly.
The reporter was wrong to take offence. So Ken would be wrong to apologize. I feel sorry for the guy. Hope Brass Eye gets hold of this one and gives it the "paedophile" treatment.

[El D]

er you guys - do you actually think the reporter was offended or was just trying to make a story?

[Calvesy]

No!

What we should all remember, and Jews in particular like the journalist Ken insulted, is that before the Nazis rounded up Jews, they rounded up homosexual and had them killed. They must have gathered their intelligence by hanging around places where they met without getting involved. The Jewish community did not shelter them and they were next.

This journalist's behaviour in hanging around outside a meeting of homosexuals to photograph them for his archive is identical to the behaviour of an SS soldier.

[luckyboy]

" do you actually think the reporter was offended or was just trying to make a story?"

No chance, he probably felt smug about trapping ken, and no doubt when he went back to his office, his editor patted him on the back on a job well done, and a pay rise as well no doubt. the media world is as cynical a enviroment as can be, every bit as devious as the political world.

 

 

 

[slimfandango]

Horses for courses...just like pimps, drug dealers, slave traders, there will always be people trying to meet a market demand. Not to justify what they do one little bit, but to place the emphasis on the readership that fuels that demand, rather than on the papers themselves. I bought the 'News of the World' a while back, because I wanted the DVD on the cover, and I've felt guilty ever since. Who could possibly want to buy this tabloid junk on a regular basis? And why??? To find out truth?
The tragedy now is that people are giving this story and kind of credence. The amazing thing is (and maybe he was a bit tipsy) that KL wasn't more aware of reporters and their ploys. He knows that we live in a society where calling anyone a Nazi makes you an antisemite. So you keep schtum. But I can understand the anger...no one likes to have a concerted campaign against them, he must have just cracked.

[El D]

imo it is the reporter who should apologise for using the memory of one of the worst atrocities to build a story. it is crap like this which is what is wrong with the world, because noone can say it cos he is jewish, even tho as a human being he is detestable.

[slimfandango]

Yes, good point.

[keyvan]

Should he appologise? No. This matter is blown out of proportion and has already gained enough publicity to discredit KL.

Journalists sometimes deserve what they get for twisting the story and manipulating people to get their story. In this case this journalist was not only looking for an angle to get answer to his questions but a paranoid individual who resort to any dirty trick to chnage public opinion.  

[El D]

Interesting twist with the attack on the mail. Think he made a mistake there, even if he is right. Now he has all the mail readers clamouring for blood. Heard one guy on the radio claiming the mail was the only paper telling the truth - had to laugh. Doubtless most mail readers are so petrified by the lies and filth the mail propagates they rarely venture from their houses for fear of our apocalyptic society.

 

As an interesting aside, I remembered that in the furore caused by the Prince Harry incident (another moralistic mail crusade) Private Eye brought up the fact that in the early 90's to celebrate the retirement of once of their top guns, the Mail had a NAZI THEME PARTY - the article was complete with pictures of the mail staff turning out in SS garb, with swastika - not even desert army issue, full on black deaths head. Wonder how that went down with their various Jewish correspondents, or did discretion play the better part of false outrage? Does my ******* head in tbh, such lies and hypocrisy.

[bazwillrun]

If it was anybody else and it was a remark concerning a muslim that skuuum bag livingstone would be screaming for their blood because thats the kind of leftie hypocrite he is

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Good point baz!