Ken Livingstone - Nazi Jibe.

[smudge]

Do you think Ken Livingstone should apologise for the Nazi jibe?

[Shipstabber]

Regardless of the offence, a person should never apologise if that apology is not sincere.

Whilst I do think that Ken Livingstone's comments were unwise, to say the least, I applaud his refusal to buckle under media pressure into giving an insincere apology.

[MORELLO]

What did he say?

[smudge]

MORELLO - Ken Livingstone said to a Reporter:

"You are just like a Concentration Camp Guard, aren't you? You are doing it beacause you are paid to, aren't you?"

[smudge]

*because

[Philtaz]

He ought to give an apology.  To use such terms at anytime is offensive but with the recent high profile stories and anniversary regarding Auschwitz his comments are highly inappropriate.

But as usual he'll ride rough-shod over the whole thing.

[Loosehead]

Further to Smudge, he was essentially drawing the parallel between the reporter saying he was only doing his job and what the Nazi Guards claimed.

It was a bit below the belt but if he believes it then he shouldn't apologise.

[andy hughes]

Having seen the published transcript of the conversation, it seems Mr Livinsgtone was offensive from the outset, based on his obvious distaste for the Evening Standard, rather than the individual reporter. That said, he was offensive in his remarks, which he compounded, having been advised that the reporter was Jewish.

Mr Livingstone should apologise because his remarks were personal and he pursued the point well past the point where his opinion had been registered by the reporter.

Everyone makes mistakes - that's why they put rubbers on the end of pencils. To stubbornly carry on with this issue is small-minded and nasty, even more so for being dressed up as a point of 'principle'.

[Dom Tuk]

He should apologise to the jewish people and to the families of holocaust victims for any offence caused as it was (in my opinion not intentional. But there should be no apology to the Evening Standard or to their reporters who employ the tactics of doorstepping to grab a few headlines or tasty snippets from people in the public domain.

[MORELLO]

Having just listened to a live debate via Radio2 on the subject, I think no, he needn't apologise on behalf of himself. It was a stupid thing to say, being in his position and at a time when London and it's Mayor are under scrutiny. He didn't know the reporter was Jewish, and his distain for the paper involved would seem justified based upon it's past and former owners. He should apologise for losing his cool, but his chosen words were simply unfortunate.

[Oneeyedvic]

Definitely not apologise. I agree that if this reporter found his remarks offensive, he should not be working where he does.

Morello - read the ranscript - he did know he was Jewish - the reporter told him after Ken Livingstone asked if he was a German War Criminal. The reporter said that he was Jewish and found that offensive - that is when Livingstone made the crack about the concentrarion camp guard.

However, I still do think that no apology is required.This reminds me of a case a while ago where a senior (nurse I think) said something along the lines of "its like 10 little n1ggers" refering to the Agatha Christie book title where people went missing. She was sacked from her job as it was offensive.

Yes, it may be offensive, however he was making a (valid) point. Just saying that you are doing your job is not an excuse!

And for theose Mail (and Evening Standard) readers who think this is abhorrent, I suggest you look at editorials from these papers in the run up to war - ie Hitlers not really that bad, no to Jewish immigration etc.

[FP]

A very definite 'No'.  I am stick and fed up of the way that some jews jump on the bandwagon of what happened in World War 2 and use it in any situation.

I am sorry if this causes offence.  What happened in the war was simply dreadful, but the jews have to move on!

[FP]

Sorry - 'I am sick and fed up'

[Shatnerfan]

I think that bearing a grudge over bad press makes KL look petty - after all, he was a restaurant critc for the ES for five years.

I admire Ken's principles in refusing to become a liar with an apology he doesn't mean. However, it seem that the word 'sorry' would solves a lot of problems - and who is the mug in a known-to-be-false apology? He who makes it or those who gleefully accept it while knowing it to be insincere?

[MORELLO]

Oneeyedvic - I meant he didn't know the reporter was Jewish when he kicked the whole German thing off. Clearly he did after that, and therefore it was a stupid thing to say. His choice, no apology. If it wasn't for a recent anniversary, it wouldn't be getting highlighted anyway.

[bernardo]

Yes - because he was blaming one young reporter for a whole century of editorial decisions of the newspaper he happened to be working for.

[Oneeyedvic]

Morello - agree - sorry to misinterpret you. Whether or not he is German or Jewish is an irrelevance (in the same way that Labours' posters regarding the 'pigs might fly' were not anti semantic). - and most people will be aware I am not a Labour supporter.

How far are we going to go. Is flicking a v sign now anti French and hence racist (Long bow and archers and the French etc - and thousands would have died in that battle).

And lets face it ...... there were plenty of people in Nazi Germany who were 'just doing what they were told'..... just as there are now in this country with the war on Terrorism.

[keen2learn]

No, I don't think he needs to apologise. His remark had nothing to do with the Holocaust and wasn't anti-semitic in any way. Why has the world become so exquisitely sensitive? Lots of common language and terminology is rooted in, or refers to, unpleasant people or phenomena; it doesn't mean that we want to bring the whole history of a word or phrase to its everyday application. I've referred to people I've had conflict with as 'Little Hitler' or 'Slave-driver'; both terms are highlighting an unpleasant facet of someone's behaviour but that's all. Nothing deeper or more sinister.

[stevie21]

The mere mention of a "concentration camp" does not make someone racist or anti-semitic.
However, his question "What did you do before, were you a German War Criminal"?
http://tinyurl.com/5sx9j
seems mental!

Is he implying that being an Evening Standard reporter is a logical progression from being a war criminal, or that the 2nd is a prerequisite for the first?

[Bangkok]

Concentration camps were started by the British in the Boer War(s)

Politicians do not need to apologise for their beliefs or statements, as long as they are not breaking any laws.  It is for the electorate to decide whether the person deserves to represent the people, balancing all the facts

Agree with Oneeyedvic, that ES / Mail reporters should consider their employers track record before passing judgement

[WaldoMcFroog]

I can't see that there's actually anything to apologise for.

Livingstone made an analogy between reporters harassing people in a way that they knew was 'not on' because their editors told them to and the excuse used by many nazis at Nuremburg to excuse what they did to the Jews - 'I was only following orders'.

In doing so, he implicitly expressed his view that the behaviour of the nazis was unacceptable and was, if anything, making a *pro*-Jewish comment (if one needs to analyse it to that extent).

Apparently the journalist is not familiar with the art of analogy.