Britain's debt nightmare.

[123everton]

I watched an hour of this show on Channel 4 last night (switched over for "The Big Bang Theory") I wasn't impressed by it.
The main point was Britain's debt being £4.8 trillion, this was based on the projected future pensions cost, which I don't think is an entirely fair prediction to make.
But my main complaint (unsurprisingly) was it's historical narritive, they went to Newcastle to praise it entrepeneurship in the 19th century and described the place as a hive of industry and bustling with activity, no doubt.
Failed to mention the grinding poverty, disease and the slums.
Failed to mention the captive markets of the empire.
Failed to mention the financial crash of the 1870s.
Failed to mention the recession prior to WW!.
Failed to mention the level of taxation to support the empire.
Failed to mention the capital projects within the empire?
Failed to notice that these expenditures were partly for out of taxation.
Failed to mention that the rest was supported by the resources that we exploited from our colonies.
Failed to state that it was the grinding poverty of the workers that allowed these entrepeneurs to flourish.
Please feel free, to add to the historical narritive or talk about the wider points it raised, it wasn't all bad that I saw, but I heard plenty to disagree with.

[Kromovaracun]

"Failed to mention the capital projects within the empire? "

Read 'The Imperialism of Free Trade' - it's an article from the 50s which hugely changed the way the imperial economic system is viewed. It demonstrates quite well that the empire was actually one of the least important areas for British trade.

[Gromit]

We only owe the banks 2.9% of our natipnal debt. The rest is:
Pension funds / Insurance companies 39.8%
Overseas Governments and Investors 35.1%
Other Financial Institutions 17.8%
Other 4.4%

[bentaxle]

Cant understand why the unions years ago when they had quite a bit of money didn't go into industry and open a few factories and say this is the way to do it ,but they didn't they put it into the banks to make more out of the workers

[123everton]

Interesting viewpoint bentaxle.
Krom, could you indulge me on the book's basic thrust, I'm not an economist and the tome's subject is probably a little too dry for my taste (if it was a T.V show I'd watch it) so I'm never going to learn about it without you.
I do feel, uninformed as I am, that the empire was a monopoly for British goods, and that it was the failure of Maynard Keynes' mission to America for a bail out resulting in convertibility that ended U.K dominance in former imperial domains.
French had strikes, Italians had strikes but still maintained their industries, look at managerial failures, Leyland, Rover, L.D.V, Courtaulds, British Steel, the coal industry, I could go on.

[DTCwordfan]

a follow up to the Imperialismk of Free Trade would be an intersting perspective for the Brits to consider - the basic tent being that the empire was just an extension that distracted the UK economy at the time and wasnt actually that important - go back 40 years and think where Aus/NZ/Canada/HK/Singapore and \Malaysia were - yes relatively advanced but small populations. Those with the large populations were poor - India/Nigeria/Pakistan. South Africa falls between the cracks - think about it today where the first 6 stand along with India......and the thinking may change.

One other consideration in this may be the recent Anglo Franco military treaties.....yes there are obviously some blatant synergies in sharing nuc safety etc etc but why also not consider the afgormentioned Commonwealth players (and an advantage apart from lingo is that a lot of their equipment was ours too........)

[rov1200]

I also watched that program which tended to be slanted to the right. If we went ahead with his ideas and reduced personal taxation to virtually nil I wonder how we would pay for the massive ongoing benefits not to mention the health service or even pay the pensions of all the civil servants?

[123everton]

Struck me as being very right wing, they're entitled to an opinion, I didn't watch the last half hour, I guess the solution was to stop the pension fund and make the contributors fund their own retirement.

[anotheoldgit]

/// history dear boy! ///

/// Erm no, it's a question about a show that was tele last night ///

Definitely a 'Media & TV' question, then, dear boy.

[pastafreak]

No it's not,as it's more about the issues presented in the program.

[anotheoldgit]

pastafreak

/// No it's not,as it's more about the issues presented in the program.///

Then wouldn't one have had to watch Television, to view the programme, so as to address the issues.

It's as bad as discussing the issues in relation to a particular car, one would not post it in 'News', unless it was a fault etc. that had been a news subject, no one would look in the 'Motoring' section.

[pastafreak]

One can argue that all stories linked here that come from either newspapers or television should be in 'Media' then-as media is defined as

"
( usually used with a plural verb ) the means of communication, as radio and television, newspapers, and magazines, that reach or influence people widely: The media are covering the speech tonight"....from Dictionary.com