Britain's debt nightmare.

[123everton]

I watched an hour of this show on Channel 4 last night (switched over for "The Big Bang Theory") I wasn't impressed by it.
The main point was Britain's debt being £4.8 trillion, this was based on the projected future pensions cost, which I don't think is an entirely fair prediction to make.
But my main complaint (unsurprisingly) was it's historical narritive, they went to Newcastle to praise it entrepeneurship in the 19th century and described the place as a hive of industry and bustling with activity, no doubt.
Failed to mention the grinding poverty, disease and the slums.
Failed to mention the captive markets of the empire.
Failed to mention the financial crash of the 1870s.
Failed to mention the recession prior to WW!.
Failed to mention the level of taxation to support the empire.
Failed to mention the capital projects within the empire?
Failed to notice that these expenditures were partly for out of taxation.
Failed to mention that the rest was supported by the resources that we exploited from our colonies.
Failed to state that it was the grinding poverty of the workers that allowed these entrepeneurs to flourish.
Please feel free, to add to the historical narritive or talk about the wider points it raised, it wasn't all bad that I saw, but I heard plenty to disagree with.

[123everton]

Erm no, it's a question about a show that was tele last night and the example it gave of the successes of "small government", one which I felt was deeply flawed.

[jno]

the debt nightmare is history? Oh good, we can vote Labour again.

[123everton]

LOL.

[B00]

Dumb question time now....

Who or what do we actually owe this money to? Other countries?

[123everton]

It's not a dumb question, don't ever apoligise for asking a question.
We owe a variety of banks, it's incredibly complicated, I don't claim to fully understand it.
One suggestion I've heard as to were we went wrong is that should have bailed out the creditors and not the debtors and thus let the speculitive banks go bust.
It's not unprecedented Argentina suffered "The Crisis Economica" in around 2001, H.S.B.C (amongst others) stole hundreds and thousands (if not millions) of dollars off ordinary Argentines, every day they'd go on the street and bang pots and pans on the floor in protest.

[Gromit]

Wrong Geezer,

35% of our debt is owed to overseas investors. Good to know all those £billions are leaving the country in double quick time. We have 14 years to pay them, but the Government want to pay them 9 years early.

[jake-the-peg]

so 65% is not overseas Gromit?

that used to be most when I was at school

[123everton]

That's something else it failed to mention the vast sums of money being appropiated out of Egypt via the tripartate act and the even greater sums being taken off the Sublime Porte via the debt relief fund.
It failed to mention the huge sums of foreign capital coming into Britain because of fraud.

[anneasquith]

a bit out of my comfort zone here, but.........................i did not take out a huge mortgage, i did not take out a huge bank loan...................i did not go on holidays using a credit card.....................i did not get any loans at all. i lived only on what money i had, including my savings................why am i being punished for the errors of others be it the banks and or the government ?

[123everton]

Anne, I'm just like you.
Thing is our econimic model is predicated on spending, I think it's called consumerism.
Cheap loans have allowed many to fund lifestyles that their wages could not sustain ordinarily.
That's why wages have not grown with costs and why the gap between the rich and the poor has widened.
Debt is huge incentive not to strike for better wages...

[jake-the-peg]

Ah yes the perenial Tory myth that a country's finances are just like an individual's finances!

By repaying too much too early we endanger the economy and risk going ito a viscious spiral of unemployment.

Cutting government spending means job losses in the private sector too! about half of the expected million job losses will be in the private sector.

More benefit bills -> more borrowing -> less tax revenue

That's why it's nothing like paying back your mortgage

[anneasquith]

who encouraged and gave people huge loans in the first place ? and the people who applied and got these huge loans and mortages should be penalized more than people like me.

[123everton]

We have a strange situation, we have capitilism, but no capital.
I was railing against mortgages during the boom to my friends as it was the loans that determined house prices, not income.
Now were being told we need to manufacture more, no kidding, who destroyed manufacturing?

[jno]

nothing to do with management, then? Like the bright idea to sell the Austin Mini - apparently a British manufacturing triumph - at a £30 loss? Yes, I'll bet that was a shop steward's idea. Darn the British working man!