Stronger National Identity

[Coldicote]

At a recent conference in Munich, David Cameron argued that the UK needed a stronger national identity. He also said, " We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," How do readers suggest we create a stronger national identity? It will need something more than just flying the flag and playng the National Anthem.

[e.crespo]

Following on from my earlier post, surely if Moslem women had more equality in the eyes of Moslem men, would it not follow that the women would be able to exert more influence over extreme behaviour? Women with a half-worth must be discounted in influencing the behaviour of young men. I would like to see this abhorrent belief (that of being only worth half of a man) outlawed in this country, for women have only had full equal rights for such a short time historically, to be dragged backwards to the nineteenth century.

[boxtops]

Burkhas are a cultural choice, not a religious obligation (whether by the individual women or their menfolk - and some wearers I used to know were the women opting to wear it because of their culture) - but burkha wearers are a tiny tiny percentage of the Muslims in this country, so let's park that for now.

Notwithstanding that Islam WAS mentioned in Cameron's speech, alongside extremism - to me the two components are different.
a) Integration etc., call it what you like,
b) the missing National Identity.

Our national identity is constantly changing - in this small town, we have three Polish shops, several Indian restaurants, several Chinese restaurants, Thai food outlets, Aldi/LIDL (can't get much more Germanic than that), Netto (Swedish), etc etc. They all contribute to multiculturalism in this town, and all the locals use them - so here it's working in terms of assimilation, but people still talk about "the foreigners". How would anyone determine that all these groups in our small town should all assume this National Identity (apart from all speaking English, which I think should be a given)?

The existing Test about the UK which some immigrants have to take before they will be admitted to the country contains questions which I doubt a lot of the locals here would be able to answer (and I include me in that), including memorable British dates and laws and names of past Prime Ministers. How relevant are those things to current British way of life to someone coming in from say Somalia? Does knowing those facts, give them our National Identity?

I'm just brainstorming here, I have no idea what's in Cameron's mind or what suggestions will now fall out from his speech in Munich yesterday!

[tamborine]

burkha'd women are prevalent in my area, boxy. Another reason for the insult is the women (or their men) think if they show their faces non-muslim men will 'fancy' them, asif !

[boxtops]

Not only non-Muslim, tambo - the whole idea of not showing any skin apart from hands, face and feet (if not wearing full covering) is because showing your legs etc., inflames all blokes. It's an attitude which really isn't very complimentary to blokes' self-restraint whatever their background - but I must admit that a bit of modesty and mystery in clothing wouldn't go amiss these days (but that's a completely different discussion).
However - what about this National Identity then? I'd rather that my Englishness wasn't represented to the world by the ENP, or the BNP, or drunk men and women in holiday resorts... which is how some of the continent sees us.

[tamborine]

pixi, because its implies western men loose self control on the sight of an uncovered muslim woman. Western reporters are 'forced' to cover up when in Afganistan, if we ripped off burkhas here we'd be arrested.

[boxtops]

Hmmm re the "forced" - if you go to another country, you dress so as not to contravene the norms or laws of the land, I certainly do. The Queen took off her shoes when she visited that mosque recently - it's politeness. I remember going to Rome and needing to cover arms and not wear shorts, so as not to give offence to the locals. Wearing local-type clothing when out and about is only sensible, I did when I spent time in the Middle East some years back.

[tamborine]

boxy, that's a small percentage of vacationists. If they're on a beach scantilly clad or low cut tops & shorts in town, that's normal western wear. Its a bit daft being in full burkha on a beach.

[boxtops]

You'd not get away with beachwear in Saudi though, if you swim at all, this is your gear http://www.primomoda....-store/home.php?cat=1

[tamborine]

Cameron wasn't talking about Saudi. Do what you want in other lands but we're discussing British identity.

[boxtops]

Agree tambo, we are wandering off the plot.

Burkhas and coverings aside - just what could we suggest to improve the British/UK national identity, everyone?

[tamborine]

enlighten me pixi, why do you wear a burkha ? How do your kids find you in a crowd of similar covered females ?

[B00]

Maybe something simple like the hoisting of the Union Jack or if you prefer St George's cross outside public places like schools libraries etc would be a start

I've often noticed that in films, especially those from the States (andllets face most of them are!) any public building portayed always has the stars and stripes proudly fluttering away. Yet whenever we see our own flag anywhere we immediately think it's football nutters who's put it up!

[boxtops]

LOL pixi, I can't imagine my vision of you including a burkha!

B00 - agree - down here we have several Union flags around the seafront, and always a couple flying on the castle (it's a flag station). It really is good to see them. My neighbour has a permanent flag of St George fixed outside his house.