That man's father

[bernardo]

There is a famous riddle which says. : ' A man is looking at a portrait and says 'Brothers and sisters have I none, but that man's father is my father's son': whose portrait is the man looking at?' The correct answer is, of course, that the man is looking at a portrait of his son, as will be realised by anyone who cares to read the question properly. But I have noticed that whenever this riddle is discussed on the radio or on websites or wherever, there are always very many people who seem convinced that the man is looking at a picture of himself. They continue with this belief in spite of all rational explanation and discussion. Why are so many people so deluded by such a simple puzzle? What is it about this riddle which causes such stubbornness and irrationality?

[answerbok]

i thought it was the taxi driver who i heard this from; He said it was his him!

[woofgang]

The innate perversity of human nature

[Squirrel]

I think it's because it would be pleasantly ironic for the answer to be...*drum roll*...the man himself. People seem to like "controversial" facts, even though they are often so overused that they become common knowledge. For example:

' "Contrary to popular belief, the whale is not actually a fish"

' "If you weighed all the humans and all the ants, the ants would weigh more"

' "Millipedes don't really have a thousand legs"

And there are thousands more'it's just one of those strange things that people get used to, e.g. according to someone's past experience, the most probable answer to a riddle of that sort is the most obvious one.

[firefly]

I don't know if you can talk about stubborness and irrationality when discussing an illogical answer to a riddle. If they were stubborn or irrational they wouldn't give you an answer.

[Maudlettice]

Both answers are correct. It can be himself, or it can be his son.

[bernardo]

Maude is incorrect to say that both answers are correct. The correct answer is that he is looking at a picture of his son. The suggestion that he is looking at a picture of himself is incorrect. But I didn't ask the riddle. I asked why it is that so many people (including Maude, apparently) are incapable of reading and understanding the actual words in the riddle.

[LordAlmighty]

yeah I dont understand either Bernardo, I understood from reading the riddle that its his son, its simple. Maude explain how both are correct.

[darth vader]

dunno how to explain this but i can see the logic in why people think both answers are correct. The answer that the man is looking at a picture of himself is definitely incorrect, and can only be correct if one were to remove the first instance of the word "father" from the sentence to read "that man is my father's son". I think basically there are two facts being stated in the sentence, both of which are true, but are incorrectly being subconsciously "binded" together (more precisely the word "father" is being binded together subconsciously) by our brain to assume the hypothesis that the picture is a picture of himself as being true. Does that help?

[Maudlettice]

Not so, Bernardo. Both answers are correct. It is similar to the Meads and Persians appearing together at Delphi to ask which was going to win tomorrows battle. The Oracle replied "The Meads the Persians will defeat" and both went away happy.

[bernardo]

Maude, you are still wrong. Please explain your explanation. Explain what is the relevance of the story about the Oracle at Delphi? The answer which you have quoted from the oracle is deliberately ambiguous, because it confuses the subject and the object of the verb in a way which can be interpreted in two different ways. The "That man's father" riddle, however, is very clear and unambiguous (at least, it is to those who bother to read it properly).

[LordAlmighty]

that mans father is my fathers son. look at it this way maude, the above sentence is broken into two parts, the first part is (THAT MANS FATHER) and the second part is (IS MY FATHERS SON) the second part explains exactly who THAT MANS FATHER is. the second part is refering to the man loking at the picture, so if the man looking at the picture asks himself who is my fathers son? the answer would be himself. so therefore we see that THAT MANS FATHER is himself, and if he himself is the father of the man in the portrait it means the portrait is of his son.

[LordAlmighty]

its not even a trick riddle, its simple.

[young gun]

yepp that riddle is pretty straight foward, maude explain how the man in the portrait can be both himself and his son.

[Maudlettice]

Berny, dear boy, you're barking. An only son is looking at a portrait of himself. Medes & Persians? The MEDES the persians will defeat/The medes the PERSIANS will defeat. There is a simple mathematical statement in the same vein - would you like to know it?

[bernardo]

Maude: Please pay attention. (1) I did not ask you to explain the Medes/Persians quotation. I perfectly well understand the way in which the Medes/Persians quotation can be interpreted in two different ways, by having each of the two nouns as the subject and/or the object. You do not need to explain it to me again, because I understood it the first time. (2) What I do not understand, however, is how the sory of the Medes and the Persians supposedly has any relevance to the "That Man's Father" riddle. (3) Please bear in mind that I did not ask the riddle itself, because I already know the correct answer to the riddle (as I said in the original question). What I asked is why the riddle is so often misunderstood by so many people, such as yourself. (4) If you still do not understand the correct answer to the riddle, then please re-read carefully the excellent explanation given by LordAlmighty a few messages up the list. (5) The fact that the man who is speaking has no brothers or sisters confirms that the portrait is of the son of the man who is speaking, and that it is not his nephew. (6) So I ask again: (7) What is the relevance of the story about the Medes and the Persians? (8) Please explain why you think that the man is looking at a portrait of himself? (9) Yes, I would like to know the "mathematical statement" to which you refer, although I doubt if it will help. (10) Most of the people who have replied to this answer will regard your reference to me as "barking" as being insulting and offensive, as well as inaccurate. Please remember that it is I who have been entirely consistent throughout this thread, and it is you (not I) who have misunderstood the riddle.

[bernardo]

If you still don't get it, try thinking of it as a specific example: "Me" is Prince Charles; "My father" is Philip; "My father's son" is Philip's son (who is Charles); "That man" is William; "That man's father" is Charles. So when Charles says "That man's father is my father's son" it can be re-written as "William's father is Charles's father's son" i.e. "William's father is Philip's son" i.e. "Charles is Philip's son" i.e. "Charles is Charles". On the other hand, if the man is looking at a portrait of himself, you would end up with "Philip is Charles".

[LordAlmighty]

Maude if he was looking at a portrait of himself then that means that his father is himself, thats impossible, he cant be his own father. bernardo you know what some people will never egt i, i dont know why, its simple. oh well maude has her reasons but wont explain them to us.

[LordAlmighty]

*some people will never get it* spelling mistake

[Maudlettice]

Dear Berny, you are wrong on two counts; 1. to abreviate "you are barking up the wrong tree" is not insulting to you 2.. you have answered your riddle wrongly, and therefore your questions do not arise. An only son is looking at a portrait of himself, and says of it out loud "that mans father is my fathers son". He's having a laugh with words, thats all. It's quite simple and self-explanatory, surely? Lol and a big smackeroo

[LordAlmighty]

Maude you just keep saying that its him but you have not tried to explain it to us, i cant see the laugh he is having with the words, so just explain it to me, because if you are right i want to understand it for myself but you wont explain.