listener 4145

[bobbycollins]

I posted a perfectly polite notice on the Times website creating a discussion about this week's puzzle - along the lines of:

"I am getting a bit fed up with the preponderance of cartes blanches, this one doesn't even have clue lengths. At least last week's was relatively straightforward"

Philoctetes posted in agreement. To my amazement both posts have been deleted. It's not like I tapped their phone or anything!! I feel like I am in a Police State.

[tilbee]

Thanks TB69, and all who gave encouragement.

Took my own advice and went out for the day - but back to it this evening. Just took a punt on the location of a key word, and everything fell into place

Do not pretend to be at the level of some of the contributors to this thread, but for me taking something that looked impossible and then completing the solution gives me great personal satisfaction.

I know, however, that I would not have done this without the support and subtle hints (e.g. Trux re the preamble) here.

[kwyjibo]

I guessed the theme early on in a moment of inspiration and that was instrumental in making a start with the grid. But I am familiar with the creations, otherwise I think I could still be sitting at a load of blank squares. At first glance this looks impossible, but experience tells you that it probably isn't as tough as it seems, but it was still pretty tough!

[trux]

For those soldiering on (which I would recommend), the comments in this thread should be some comfort : there is logic to the numbering system, and the grid divides itself into two sections that need to be treated differently (which realisation means one can start a gridfill even without cold-solving everything). Onward, soldiers, onward !

[Ruthrobin]

Used-car dealer reporting for duty - just to echo trux. The preamble, as usual, gives the biggest hint and the title is usually a good place to look for help, too.

[JackDeCrow]

Firmly in the "soldiering on" camp here. Around half of the clues solved (although a couple a bit dodgy and with some curious letters emerging, particularly towards the end). Still absolutely no idea on any aspect of the theme - this could be a long week!

[Clamzy]

Ooh, I get by with a little help from my friends. Not quite finished but have hopes that I will.
Friday club partly absent this week? I wonder how many finishers have done so without a little nudge from a friend, or alternatively have access to grid fill software and/or spreadsheet.
Trux has been most helpful on here of course but speravi's tip of a few weeks ago has been vindicated in spades. I hope he's used his own hint this week:-)

[JackDeCrow]

Phew - got there at last - not too much useful work done today! Eventually saved by a few answers with a promising looking symmetry, which got me going on the grid fill. From there came a few more answers and enough letters to find the creator and one of the creations. Didn't get the work in another genre until the very end, largely due one of the letters I was most certain of being wrong! Feels like I have completed dr b's hike backwards!

[dead-eye]

I had no need of software, but did use the speravi technique to make an early start to grid fill(10 ans).Then fell for the alternative spelling of 41,which fitted in nicely and caused chaos.Thought this was not as difficult as His Birthday offering,which took me a week to complete.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Am suffering from huge inferiority complex as more and more people are reporting success while I am still staring at an empty grid.

[silversolver]

Me too, pushmi-pullyu. Was away for the weekend so only started last night but so far I have cold solved 18 clues with 8 misprints found, I think, but these are not suggesting anything thematic and I have no idea how to start filling the grid...

[magichour]

You're not alone, I've still only solved around a third of the clues and have no idea how to start entering them. The hints concerning the title and preamble have given me an idea, but with very few of the early clues solved, I may be putting this to one side. Frustratingly close to gleaning words of the 'work in another genre' towards the end, which may be a big help if the surrounding clues could be solved.

[BlackHugh]

I am in the same state P-P and silversolver - but could someone explain the "speravi technique"?

[jabone]

I guessed the theme very early on and then had a lucky break in my choice of how to start the bottom section. Don't think I could have done this without the theme. Now, many hours later, I have four unsolved clues in the top. Hoping for a PDM following this post!

[stymied]

For the last day and a half I've had a single letter missing from my grid, in 12, and am about to throw in the towel!

[jabone]

stymied - are you assuing the wrong length for this word? This is what I did for ages.

[jabone]

sorry 'assuming'

[stymied]

Spot on! Many thanks Jabone -- might get some sleep now. Thanks.

[Staurologist]

I am not sure that I would recommend struggling on with this, if you still are. It is in one sense as ghastly as some have suggested. When I managed to solve it, it was with more of a groan than the warm glow of satisfaction that I experienced after finishing the recent puzzles by Shackleton and Samuel, for example, when all the pennies were in place.

However, if you are determined, here is a suggestion for gaining entry to the grid. Write down the answer lengths to all the clues you have solved and look for a symmetrical pattern; that will guide you to the positions of the across clues in the bottom two-thirds. When I did this I found two answers that obviously had to be located in the centre rows of the bottom two-thirds, and there were only seven different ways of entering them. After that the down answers fitted relatively easily, two of them surprisingly non-symmetrically, against my initial expectations.

The wording of the preamble left something to be desired. A note explaining that the clues are in the usual order would have helped. And numbering the clues "a", "b" etc would have done away with the necessity of explaining what the numbers were for. I agree that Phi should have told us how many misprints there were and perhaps also how many words in the hidden work. I am normally in favour of including word lengths too, and although that would have made the puzzle easier to solve, it would have increased the pleasure enormously for many solvers. Actually, I don't see why he couldn't have given the bars in the bottom two-thirds, leaving the top third carte blanche; that would have produced a much more admirable puzzle, I think. This is another example, I think, of a setter trying too hard to raise the difficulty bar, instead of concentrating on giving solvers pleasure, which should always be the first priority.

[Clamzy]

Staurologist Hear hear.

Black Hugh - Speravi was taken to task on here for stating what I thought was the obvious and which is mentioned above by RR.

[Speravi]

BlackHugh: In the thread for Listener 4128 "Ringtone" by Trev, I posted this comment, "Time spent in contemplating anagrams of Listener titles is rarely wasted...".