listener 4145

[bobbycollins]

I posted a perfectly polite notice on the Times website creating a discussion about this week's puzzle - along the lines of:

"I am getting a bit fed up with the preponderance of cartes blanches, this one doesn't even have clue lengths. At least last week's was relatively straightforward"

Philoctetes posted in agreement. To my amazement both posts have been deleted. It's not like I tapped their phone or anything!! I feel like I am in a Police State.

[7lattens]

Having only achieved 9 answers, I have just re-read the preamble and noted Phi's instruction that "Solvers must enter bars".

I assume the advise to partake of alcoholic consumption implied is to lessen the feeling of abject failure and a blank grid !

[JackDeCrow]

So little time since it was the subject that was in the bars. Is this progress, we ask?!

[BlackHugh]

speravi (and clamzy) - ah yes I remember it now thanks - I've already got the theme though - now just got to get the remaining clues and fill in the grid!

[BlackHugh]

speravi (and clamzy) - ah yes I remember it now thanks - I've already got the theme though

[stymied]

Sadly a theme done to death recently. It appeared in three CWs on Saturday and also appears in the current Oldie -- couldn't help but groan when it appeared here.

[silversolver]

Thanks for the hints - I have the theme and a lot more clues solved so at least there is a small light at the end of the tunnel emerging.

[cluelessJoe]

Ruthrobin - I just bumped into starwalker at the end of our road looking a bit peeved - seems his big end's gone and he's blown a gasket. Trust you give refunds. Meanwhile, I think I'll stick to my old Kia ... or should that read Kea?

[TheBear69]

I strongly disagree with Staurologist. I, for one, appreciate the Phi and/or the editors adding to the challenge. As I said before: It's the Listener; it's supposed to be very difficult, at least occasionally. They clearly made the deliberate judgement that the solver was supposed to figure out how the clues were ordered and I don't think we should be substituting our judgement for theirs. It's one thing to state a general principal (like the speravi principal) as a gentle hint; it's quite another to reveal a clearly deliberate omission.

[magichour]

Putting this to one side for a while helped, as a flash of inspiration regarding the theme allowed me to gradually fill most of the bottom two-thirds. I have the creator, one of the creations and the occasion, with a likely other creation. Still haven't solved some crucial clues near the beginning though, and some answers are still baffling me, especially 35 (and its location). Time to take another break and see if any more inspiration hits me while thinking of something else entirely.

[tilbee]

TB69 - Principle surely :-)

[Clamzy]

TB69 Your point was made earlier by RR but I don't think you will sell as many cars.
There have been other Listeners much more difficult than this one including many which I failed to finish. The difference is I enjoyed them.

[midazolam]

The listener, as with several other outlets, tries to stick with a first in first out basis. Of course if there is a date involved that will be taken into account. It just so happens that a number of setters have produced carte blanche puzzles at the same time, not to increase difficulty per se, but because their themes warrant it. It is not the editors fault. I would not like it if my puzzle was delayed several months just because of the layout. I am sure the editors would not allow a puzzle that is carte blanche just for the sake of it. I suppose Phi could have added the bars in the bottom two-thirds of the grid, but that is a little messy and, as mentioned, it is the Listener after all.

If anyone wants to tackle an even tougher puzzle then try this month's Magpie - a circular puzzle that took me a lot longer than this puzzle did

[silversolver]

Phew, finally got there. I agree that this was something of a slog and, whilst I usually enjoy the challenge of a carte blanche, this was pretty hard work and I too felt the preamble was excessively unhelpful.

[fyellin]

This is one of the first puzzles where at the end I felt pissed rather than satisfied. I felt like the instructions intentionally lied to me, and the lie had no purpose other than causing me to spend extra time on the puzzle.

Why didn't the instructions just state the obvious?

[I'm in the US. That's pissed=angry, not pissed=drunk.]

[serpentinew]

Personally, I think the added difficulty was unintentional. J'accuse on the grounds that the sentence "A number of clues have a misprint of one letter in the definition part; their correct letters in clue order spell out a work by the same creator in another genre" implies a normal order to the clues, whilst the " The numbers have no significance other than to make clear the divisions between individual clues." is plain wrong as the numbers have a significance in that they portray the clue order. I can't recall a Listener deliberately misleading the solver in the preamble - maybe Viking's successors are n't quite as meticulous as they might like to think!

[pushmi-pullyu]

Just solved another clue! At this rate of progress I will have finished in about 2014.

[cluelessJoe]

same here fyellin, except I'm in the UK
:)

[dead-eye]

.....Hic.....

[Cruncher]

I'm going for the long game here and deriving solace from the hare/tortoise fable. All those youngbloods who have posted solutions have probably now fallen asleep and will wake up after the posting date has passed....
Now the proud possessor of nearly half the answers and a thematic reference or two and beautifully intactly empty grid. Seems a shame to spoil its perfect symmetry with actual entries

[IainGrace]

Speravi's helpful heavy hint regarding the title probably discourages us further from our vain attempts to make progress with this one, as we can't say that we find the subject very congenial, nor one of which we have much knowledge. Shall we simply wait for next week's challenge - presumably a carte blanche numeric without clues?