Listener Crossword 4192 Symbolic by Jago

[starwalker]

No problems at all with this. Definitely one to attract newcomers. Thanks Jago

[Coalminers]

Only got 4191 into the post on Sunday, and am worried now, with all these bank holidays, that it might not get to JEG on time.
I was a bit disappointed with the solution shown of the 8x13 (or was it 13x8). I agree that it was only fair to accept any curve going through the given cells (though does that mean that just one big scribble all over would have done), but I do feel that the radii of the quarter circles shown should have followed the Fibonacci sequence. The start ought to have been at the bottom left of the first square, shouldn't it?

[tramart]

Coalminers - Knowing how fair-minded he is I would expect your entry to be accepted if it arrives late but has a legible postmark.
I agree regarding the Fibonacci curve - it 'should' have been correctly drawn using a pair of compasses and the correct radii.

[easterfool]

Well I enjoyed it - easy yes, expected theme yes, but I enjoyed it so thanks Jago. I wish that I could do something like this - instead I just enjoy solving them. I will be coming up to my 50th year of trying Listeners in the next year - solving some, failing on others particularly early in my career - so I won't hear a thing against any Listener crossword - unless it gives me a headache or as usual I make a stupid mistake - and then the comment is more on the lines of "Silly me" - or thereabouts. Keep up the good work guys and gals.

[Cloverjo]

As someone who thinks she's done well if
she can solve one clue in a listener wordy
I am thrilled to have completed the grid. I can't
find the celebrant, though.

[tramart]

Cloverjo : Consider Archieleach's posting at 16:30 Sat, and you know how many letters.

[millman]

I am a newcomer to Listener Crosswords and so am thrilled to have completed my first entire grid without having to resort to lurking on this forum. However, I fear I shall not return here given the atmosphere created by the criticism of the compiler for not being clever enough to anticipate the need to match the egos of some contributors. Feels like the first day at big school when the bully has robbed you of your dinner money.

[dr b]

I think we can all agree that some puzzles are more interesting/challenging than others. Are we not allowed to express that opinion on this forum? Should the only purpose of this thread be to log on to say "Finished! Lovely! Thank you, Mr. or Ms. Setter"? Should any criticism be watered down sufficiently so that no one's feathers might be ruffled? Can negative opinions only be expressed by those capable of setting a Listener-level puzzle themselves? Some guidance would be appreciated.

For I am,

Confused in St. Louis.

[Coalminers]

Cloverjo and millman....it is excellent to have some new contributors on Answerbank. Please don't be put off by others' comments. It appears to be a fact of life that the most enjoyable crossword for any solver is the most difficult one they manage/are capable of completing. Anything an iota more difficult is considered absolutely unfair. Anything a lot easier is beneath them. The mere fact that the two of you have joined us surely more than justifies the crossword. Welcome, and thank you Jago.

[gribble]

cloverjo , if you want a hint or the answer, just post a fresh question and I will gladly answer it , or any future listeners if I am able.

[Philoctetes]

What is the real difference between saying "Wow, fantastic puzzle" and "Sorry, disappointed"? Neither of those comments really bears any weight unless the other is also considered possible. It is nothing to do with my huge ego and self-congratulation at solving - one recent puzzle I was disappointed with (the blessed Carte Blanche with a Twist) I did not complete. A puzzle does not need to be hard to be satisfying, nor does difficulty guarantee praise. What I felt here was that there were so many opportunities in the theme for multiple delights, but they were ignored, and we were left with a simplistic representation.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Am with Philoctetes. Last Sunday's EV was only a little harder than Symbolic, but (IMO) was a lot more amusing. Sorry, Jago.

[Cloverjo]

Thanks for the welcome, Coalminers and gribble. I am still stumped by the celebrant. I think I know what it might be as it's not a word, but can't find it on my grid. I'll check for any mistakes. Ta.

[IainGrace]

I think the response to Millman et al is very much to encourage newcomers, but it is a question of standards. We are not talking Mephisto, Azed etc here. Some of the clues, e.g. 18, 24, 31 and 38 across would be solved in seconds by anyone with any track record at all in doing cryptics. Not a question of egos - just a question of the Listener being so much better and more fun when it is just a bit more challenging.

[millman]

Probably my ego the problem not others! Having spent some time and mental application completing the puzzle it was somewhat deflating to hear others describe it as easy and no more than a Daily T offering (which it wasn't incidentally) Sorry for any offence caused. I am just a beginner.

[dr b]

millman, no offense taken; welcome to the forum, keep speaking your mind, long may you wave!!

[Cruncher]

Don't know - think there is a lot of unfestive grumpiness out there. I agree that it did reveal it secrets rather easily - it might have made it fractionally more tricky if we hadn't been given the answer lengths - but I was one of the solvers who scratched my head for quite a while about the celebrant. Actually I quite like the occasional listener where I don't have to squint at the BRB - and there is always more time for the Magpie.....

[Staurologist]

I finished this during an excellent long-weekend cricket tour of Amsterdam, without the benefit of the BRB, so I agree with the comments above, but especially those from Walterloo and borealis. No classic, but certainly enjoyable. Why does Philoctetes say that there is no symmetry? The grid has 180-degree symmetry, although the highlighting is not symmetrical. I too thought at first that it was what the celebrant is sometimes called (a deliberate red herring, I suspect) that had to be highlighted, rather than the celebrant's name, but it obviously has to be the latter. Looking back to this weekend 10 years ago, I see that there was no equivalent celebratory puzzle, so we need not necessarily have expected one this time. However, there was a related celebratory puzzle, which used the same shapely theme, about four and a half years ago, as midazolam points out.

Incidentally, I didn't entirely miss out on jubilee fever by going abroad. I watched the concert on Dutch television, which subtitled it in a way that demonstrated that the terrible jokes were all completely scripted well in advance. The Prince's speech, which outshone the performers' efforts by a long way, was also pre-released for subtitling.

IainGrace's first comment here reminds me of a story that Milton Shulman once told. He had been slagging off a particularly bad performance by an actress, whose husband happened to be listening. "Who are you to say that?" asked the husband. "Who do you have to be?" asked Shulman. Everyone can be a critic, and some are better at it than others; not everyone has the talent to be a composer.

[olichant]

This newcomer enjoyed a confidence boost which, for purely selfish reasons, he enjoyed.

I admit that I was surprised that I was able to make headway so quickly. Two long, easy entries in the middle were giveaways. For a while, I assumed that the "obvious" theme was a red herring, and that there would be something sneakier lying underneath. For what little it might be worth, however (and I do have sympathy with the views expressed by some of the detractors, who are surely better placed to comment than I) it was really enjoyable.

At least this week I don't have to publicly advertise my idiocy in not understanding basic wordplay!

[Philoctetes]

Sorry, Staurologist, I was referring to the smaller aspect of the whole

[Zabadak]

Shop Steward? Moi? I don't think so. Most days I have enough trouble representing my own view, and whoever the management is, I certainly wouldn't want to risk their going off in a huff and taking their crosswords with them. What would I do on Friday nights?
As far as this one is concerned, chacun à son goût. It was not hard, but I had fun. and didn't see the obvious for some time because I entered several double letters in the wrong places and several diagonals out of kilter.
If the alternative "celebrant" is meant as a red herring, it reveals itself as such because, whether or not its spelling is possible, its pronunciation before the celebrant is definitely disapproved of.