Listener Crossword 4192 Symbolic by Jago

[starwalker]

No problems at all with this. Definitely one to attract newcomers. Thanks Jago

[tilbee]

One of the easiest Listeners that I recall. As others have commented it looks like June's Magpie should set some challenges to fill up a wet weekend if the forecast is correct.

[Whenland]

Walked down to paper shop at 0930, home, cup of coffee, puzzle done. Coffee still warm!

[upsetter]

Zabadak, you’re too nice for your own good.
We are firmly in the second division of solvers. We expect to be defeated occasionally but always to feel satisfaction on solving, including the ‘easy’ introductory puzzles. The Listener can be something of great beauty, independently of the difficulty of the clues. This was a very rare but terrible disappointment.
We request you as our shop steward to make the following points to management.
1. Given that the penny was inevitably going to drop before we even opened the paper, we could at least have hoped for some depth.
2. The result is not even visually elegant.
3. Double letters/clashes etc should make the puzzle harder. Given that their arrangement was clunkingly signalled, they just made it easier.
4. Far too many Daily Telegraph standard clues. We imagine that most Listener solvers expect the basic difficulty level to be Spectator/Araucaria level upwards.
5. The highlighting belongs to those puzzle books that people always seem to have in reception.
6. We blame the editor. A four day weekend was the perfect opportunity for a classic

[ArchieLeach]

Perhaps the setters thought the bank holiday weekend would be a good opportunity to welcome some new recruits with an easy one. I certainly got started with an easy one.

[pushmi-pullyu]

To echo Alekhine, a piece of cake which now leaves the weekend clear. I might have a piece of cake.

[Stavrolex]

Agree entirely with upsetter re lack of depth - in fact I'm still halfheartedly studying the grid in disbelief hoping for an alternative and more satisfying reading. And while you're all enjoying your unfeasibly long weekend spare a thought for those of us in the further reaches of her maj's dominions who are back to work on Monday and Tuesday...

[midazolam]

So is the ambiguity a deliberate red herring or an unintentional oversight? Will we be marked right for highlighting either of the celebrants, if it is the latter? One is more specific that the other, but I feel both are legitimate.

Bank holidays do tend to give us easier puzzles for some reason, but the cluing was nowhere near Listener territory.

The theme was reasonable, but anyone remember a puzzle based on a similar theme 4 and a half years ago? That was excellent in comparison and had a thematic way of entering answers, two different linked group of entries and a thematic message in a particular form.

Oh well, plenty to do in the continuing sunshine.

[scooterbug]

I have what seems to be a viable candidate in the word search, but I'm not sure that it properly addresses the theme. I'm American, and wonder if my candidate word is as common as I suspect it is in the UK. It's somewhat justified by BRB, but seems thin. I think I've seen another hint on the thread, but wanted to double-check. Thanks.

[ArchieLeach]

Scooterbug, it sounds like you have found the celebrant I found first, in which case (I think) it is not the right one. Look close by for something not so immediately recognisable (not a word) but more specific.

[starwalker]

midazolam - I suspect the ambiguity is deliberate, as it could easily have been avoided. Sunshine ? What sunshine ?!

[tilbee]

Whoops ! In my rush to get back to the Magpie, I see now that I just picked the first potential celebrant I saw, and missed the obvious. Please no comments that this means that I should not submit this week, because I don't anyway.

[IainGrace]

Agree with the note of disappointment in more recent posts. The theme was entirely predictable and the clues were well below even entry level Listener standard. Happy hols, whether monarchist or republican, to all.

[Philoctetes]

Very disappointed. No symmetry, no hidden message, obvious mcguffin too simply realised. Completed without referring to BRB

[logophile]

It must be an oversight midazolam - as you say, both describe the celebrant perfectly, and so once one is discovered there would be no need to look any further - what a shame. Perhaps we can expect something more substantial for the next milestone in Jan 2016. In the meantime I add my congratulations on the occasion and hope everyone here has a chance to enjoy the festivities !

[mathsman]

Confused about 2016. Given that Victoria reigned for almost exactly 63 years and 8 months, the Queen could pass that milestone in October 2015; or was there some other milestone that was in mind?

[logophile]

That's why you're the mathsman !

[Walterloo]

In regards to negative comments, I completely respect the opinions of others on this site. If you don't like a puzzle, then fair enough. That's your view. But I would like to offer my own opinion on what people regard as inferior puzzles, if for nothing else than to expunge it from my system and get it out there and into the wind.

I, for one, take great pleasure in solving these puzzles, no matter what the quality. More pleasure comes from cracking a well constructed, well loved toughie than a more straightforward, simpler thematic crossword, that's undeniable, but for me there is always pleasure of some degree to be had from solving a clue a cleverer person than me has written and filling in empty cells with letters. At the beginning of solving the anticipation of what's to come and what needs to be done is the same every time, no matter how tough or superior the clues are, and with the highlighting or manipulation of words and cells and letters and who know's what else, the delight in solving the endgame is simply satisfying, mixed with the feeling of having achieved something. I take pleasure in solving a puzzle that the setter and editors of one of the most highly respected crossword series presents to me to be solved. Yes, my pleasure in solving Samuel's Spiral recently was greater than that experienced from Jago's offering, but now and again I like to fill a grid quickly because doing that brings its own satisfaction.

Some of you think this one is inferior? You're entitled to that opinion and no, it wasn't of high quality, but it was still a Listener. And a crossword with a blank grid to be filled by tapping into our intellect, however deep we have to go, is a pleasure every time. And I'd like to think that if a lot of the solvers out there who thought this to be disappointing were presented with a blank sheet of paper and a pencil and were asked to create their own thematic crossword from scratch, they would do a lot worse than today's.

[borealis]

Easier than most? Yes.
Logical and enjoyable? Yes.
That's fine by me.
And it was really nice to have one where you didn't need to resort to Qat or Bradfords - a bit of variety is good too.

Walterloo, I'm with you on this!

[tenflags]

It could be argued that it would be a 'waste' to have a toughie when the theme was going to be so obvious. Also maybe the setters / editors considered folk might resent struggling with a beast when they could be enjoying the extra long w/end.

Whilst I have the utmost respect for these clever setter folk- and no I couldn't set one, I still found this just a bit too easy for my Listener challenge.

Although with a 13 year old son (on a school rugby trip), being present in the food hall at the Eaton centre in Toronto when the shooting happened, and along with many others running for their lives - it ensures one keeps a proper perspective; So no Z-cup claims from me.

[IainGrace]

All good stuff, Walterloo, and don't demur from much that you say, save for your last point. You don't have to be a playwright in order to be a good drama critic.