Listener 4198, 24 Across by Pilcrow

[Zabadak]

Pretty straightforward even in my current befuddled state: the double clues resolve easily enough. I query "our" and "hero" in the rubric, and whether the lower case writing thing really works, but then I write funny anyway. My regards to all who assemble in this place.

[Twit-Who]

I liked this puzzle a lot and thought it quite clever although I am obviously in the minority. It was easier than of late but it made a pleasant change not to have the extra letter in every clue format and the double clues added interest. I agree with Ruthrobin that there is some doubt over the word "initially".

[Philoctetes]

Like many, seriously underwhelmed. Too many of the clues are not "double", and few required much pondering. And as for "repositioned"? I can understand why it is referred to like that, but it does depend on one's handwriting! And why is it a "representation". Too much wrong here. Where's my shard of Z.

[Zabadak]

I agree the wording is ambiguous, but I think it means initially lower case, then amended but still lower case. I almost sure, though, that a submission in standard upper case would have to be acceptable given the ambiguity, and the hardship for our beloved assessor in reading lower case letters such as I might produce.

[Mesnilpat]

All done, though I don't quite get the endgame in part. A gentle workout and like many before me, I am mystified by the use of the word 'hero'. The person in question has obviously done something that I know nothing about.

[kwyjibo]

I suspect Pilcrow may be a blinkered follower of his 'hero'. Artful construction but ultimately unconvincing, but I may not be talking about the crossword.

[olichant]

I share others' scepticism re the heroism. My instinct is to leave the lower case letters (because of the reference to certain initials which are "to remain as capitals") but I agree it is not clear.

This probably isn't the place to post this - but now the solution has been released, I just thought it worth adding that (in my opinion, for what it is worth) the Alan Turing crossword by Hotspur was incredibly elegant and even beautiful.

[JackDeCrow]

Yes, the "repositioning" is bothering me too. 4 of the 5 changes could have something in common, which would justify the lower case thing, but then the 5th would only work without. Or am I missing something?

[JagoBean]

I'm going for lower case submission - I think the first 'initially' probably means 'before you carry out the repositioning'. I agree it's unclear, but as the repositioning only works in lower case (and in certain fonts!) I reckon it's best to leave as is.

2 completed in a row! My best year ever!

[Texasetes]

Research suggests that this puzzle is not Pilcrow's finest. His last puzzle received very favourable reviews on a certain blog, yet the preceding one was completed in "a little more than thirty minutes" by one reviewer (who confesses to being dismissive about that and three of Pilcrow's earlier Listeners).

It's hard to judge Pilcrow's overall standard from so few examples, especially when they show such a range of difficulty.

For those with access, his two previous Listener puzzles are available online; I'm tempted to have a crack at the last one, even though I now know how it works.

[trux]

Was away but found a copy of the Times at Figari airport. Completed the puzzle on the flight home - probably fastest time ever for me and with absolutely no aides whatsoever - so definitely at the easy end of the spectrum. Some quite elegant clues, so thanks must go to Pilcrow even if my allegiance lies elsewhere in thematic terms, and we was robbed (in 1971) by one of the "hero"'s predecessors; it still grates. Have to assume "double" clues reflects a 10th anniversary. On less positive note, title was pretty insipid - yet surely offered many possibilities? (Too soon for us to run a side competition to find a better version?)

[magichour]

Also in the position of wondering exactly what format the submission is supposed to take. An ambiguous preamble might make sense sometimes, but here it leaves far too much room for doubt about whether the letters are to remain in lower case or not. I, like RuthRobin, am going to assume that the 'initially' refers to the position before the letters are repositioned, and submit the entry all in standard capitals.

Add me to the list of the underwhelmed - some nice clues, but a disappointing end.

[sunny-dave]

All done in a couple of hours yesterday afternoon, couldn't even be bothered to have a look here until now - which sort of says it all really ...

[Cruncher]

Bit of a damp squib after a run of three rather challenging puzzles - confess I was beaten by Hotspur's - and dependent on some dodgy calligraphy. But hey, safely in the post although never did understand the appearance of "engine" in 12/38ac. Who cares

[s_pugh]

Good spot Cruncher - glad it wasn't just me that was baffled by 'engine'. I even started wondering if there were other errant words which might lead to something! Not the best of Listeners but I guess we've been spoiled of late especially with 4197.

[Philoctetes]

It is a secondary definition

[dr b]

I think "engine" makes it a triple-def (look up the acronym), and is needed so the surface reading makes sense.

[s_pugh]

Thanks Philoctetes and Dr B for pointing that out - bit slow on the uptake there. Must be the rain. Makes perfect sense now.

[jim360]

I found the theme of this week's puzzle amusing since I was 7 or so, but surprised to say the least to find it in a Listener. I'd have thought most of us didn't watch such things. Hero, perhaps meant ironically? Anyway, three in a row, woot!

[Alan7777]

As always I agree with previous comments apart from the fact that I didn't find the clues particularly easy. Unusually for me I saw the theme before I'd solved all the clues. I have used all upper case for my submission. I don't understand the title but am I bothered?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Jim, many years ago there was a Listener with the same theme which celebrated a genuine success and its ten heroes.