Listener 4198, 24 Across by Pilcrow

[Zabadak]

Pretty straightforward even in my current befuddled state: the double clues resolve easily enough. I query "our" and "hero" in the rubric, and whether the lower case writing thing really works, but then I write funny anyway. My regards to all who assemble in this place.

[tilbee]

A fairly standard Listener I thought, but not up to the level of some we have had recently. Would have been nice to have had more thematic elements included (even if not quite to my taste). Also the title is normally a key element of a Listener, so would have been good to see some more ingenuity here. My 30 second consideration has come up with 'The Lead Gunner' but I am sure the contributors and setters here can come up with something far better.

[teuchter2]

I'm not sure about that Ruthrobin. Obviously one letter has to become upper case for the whole thing to work, as it becomes an initial? I suspect it's somewhat ambiguous and the powers that be may need to make allowances. I was actually in the Friday club this week, but couldn't seem to find the thread in my befuddled state at 10.30. I agree about the subject not being a hero. Give me AF any day!

[logophile]

If 'initially' is omitted from the preamble, then lower case would be required, so I suspect it's been inserted to allow for either case.

I was left wondering why Pilcrow hadn't started with the position, to be changed to his hero - perhaps the rule about living persons ? Either way, not a very interesting finale, sorry !

[tilbee]

logophile - in that case I think it would have been difficult to justify the insertion of the article.

[logophile]

I think that was difficult anyway tilbee !!

[tilbee]

Agreed - perhaps I should have worded it as "even more difficult".

[Alekhine]

Add me to the Z-Cup aspirants. I thought this was quite feeble.

As for the upper case / lower case debate, isn't lower case essential (where indicated) in order to provide the "representation of the capacity"? Use of upper case would not allow such representation to be achieved.

[crosswhit99]

Perhaps the preamble should have read "initially entered in pencil" - as it is actually worded RR is quite correct, it does imply that upper case will be OK (although in that case I suppose you could have guessed the correct entry without understanding the 5 repositionings).

[IainGrace]

Just emabarked on this, but agree it is looking pretty humdrum. Finished 4197, having, by chance, identified the final step before we had carried out the second part of the exercise. All good fun and what an intricate construction.

[ArchieLeach]

Ah, thank you Alekhine, I was beginning to think I had jumped to the wrong conclusion regarding the repositioning. Surely it has to be in lower case, it doesn't work otherwise.

[JackDeCrow]

Well I guess you could go back to capital letters at the end to represent the representation. Even with the "initially" though, given it doesn't say to do that, it would seem to me that staying in lower case can't really be judged wrong.

[crosswhit99]

Initially, yes Archie, but it can be converted to upper case ultimately.

[crosswhit99]

Sorry Jack, you took the words right out of my mouth, it must have been while I was typing slowly !

[aldanna]

Away so late start but no problems with this. Also a bit underwhelmed by the denouement. I'll have a small shard, please.

[contendo]

A late start on this as I've been away over the week-end. I agree with most of what has been said. I thought a particular weakness was that in so many clues the division between the two halves was too obvious.
I'm in the lower-case submission camp. Anyway it's nice to finish one, having failed to complete 4195 or 4197.

[ArchieLeach]

Well, maybe you could transform back to capitals at the end. But the actual words to be entered are so obvious it's surely reasonable that you have to write them in lower case, to show that you understand how the repositioning is achieved.

[taittinger]

As noted above, this obviously has been sitting on a shelf in the backroom for quite some time. Now dusted off and put on display, it's fair to say public reaction has been tepid. Hope other time-sensitive puzzles aren't caught in the (presumed) backlog.

[Alekhine]

Such a nice surprise ... the postman has just arrived with a crisp and fresh 12th Edition of Chambers.

I had no idea, but I appear to have come out of the 4195 hat.

That trip to Bletchley Park earlier this month has clearly paid dividends.

[Ruthrobin]

Great news Alekhine. May I recommend the Ferret on the Crossword Centre's message board. It's a lovely little thing and your chances of winning a Chambers volume are about ten times as high as with the Listener -OK, I realize that Alekhine doesn't need another but their prize doesn't have to be the dictionary.

[Texasetes]

Congrats, Alekhine.

Given that the closing date was as recent as July 5th, they didn't waste any time in dispatching the prize, did they?

In which case maybe I ought to make enquiries about the non-delivery of something which I apparently should have received a few weeks ago ...