Listener Crossword 4242: Killer Queen By Gwizardry

[jim360]

At times this was deeply frustrating -- after making a lot of progress all at once I lost track of what I knew and what I didn't. Eventually managed to make the breakthrough once I made use of a real pack of cards. So much easier to perform the shuffling with objects you can touch rather than in your head or on paper!

Mind you, this is the oddest Listener I've seen so far. I wonder what those who aren't exactly fans of numericals will make of this one. I enjoyed it, overall. And while the final step is optional, it makes the puzzle just much more complete to finish it. Thanks to gwizardry for a wonderful exercise in logic!

[Scorpius]

I think it's time for me to throw in the towel with this one. I could make no further logical steps after filling about 2/3 of the grid, and trial and error proved frustratingly unproductive. I've just found another possible permutation for row H, throwing some of my previous deductions into question. I've spent about as long on this as 3 or 4 normal Listeners! Life's too short. Congratulations to all who have solved it.

[TheBear69]

I can assure one and all that there is a purely logical path to the full solution including the suiting of the Qs, independent of the title. While it is useful to have a pack of cards, it's not necessary.

[olichant]

Just out of interest - for those who have the solution - how long would it take you to run through it from beginning to end, ticking off the reasoning at every step, once you know the path in advance? This may seem a curious question, but I kept a running record of my decisions (essential practice for when the mistakes cropped up!) and it looks hugely inefficient to me. I suspect it is just that.

[jim360]

3,000 words, though I do babble on a bit.

[jim360]

Should just explain, that I've written up a full solution that hopefully will be published in just over two weeks' time. This post immediately prior to this makes me look like a bit of a douche.

[olichant]

Ha! Not at all. 3,000 - maybe that's about right - I still think I went through a lot of unnecessary, inefficient steps.

[Ruthrobin]

Go to Listen With Others at 4 o' clock on June 7th and I believe there will be at least three blogs, two of them detailed. You'll be able to count the words. (smile)

[TheBear69]

Under 1300 words...

[jim360]

Model of brevity, eh, TB? I'd be interested to see your solution at some point.

[Philoctetes]

I could be briefer. "Be confused - sleep on it - have flash of insight - tidy up loose ends". Hasn't worked quite like that (only started today) but it usually gets me there. ;)

[Philoctetes]

[When i was a programmer, ages ago, the specs used to be along the lines of "This is the input, this is the output, just make up the middle as you go along"]

[starwalker]

It was interesting to see how much my completed version (using cards) differed from my earlier pencil and paper attempts. If there is a clear and logical line (and I'm sure there must be) then I look forward to reading it.

[youngoffender]

Well, this one nearly drove me mad. There was a dark night of the soul when I got virtually the whole grid complete, only to find that Row H would not give me the right sum. I then started tinkering with other rows and columns, inevitably making one of those wrong instead. Like a monster Sudoku, I had to start the logical work from the beginning to find my error. Finally I found it – one possible permutation for Rows F and G which I had missed – and the sense of triumph was worth all the hair-pulling.

[Cloverjo]

I had the same problem with Row H. As youngoffender has finally solved it, I am inspired to try again for about the eighth time.

[starwalker]

@Cloverjo and youngoffender - snap !

[Cruncher]

Finally finished it this morning. Dipped in rather than slogged which is probably not a sensible strategy because it always takes a while to get back into the zone. I was determined not to start guessing and therefore to have to go back and reckon that I managed it by deduction alone - although figuring out the title fairly early on did give a slight advantage

[Alekhine]

Very late reporting in this week after a wild time away at the Orkney Folk Festival.

4242 was fun, but quite a grind. I managed to finish on the ferry back to Scrabster and post in Inverness. Now that's a first.