Listner No. 4455: Silence By Mynot

[AHearer]

It took me a little while to spot what was needed in the top and bottom rows, but apart from that a reasonably straighforward offering from MynoT. I was lucky in getting the big word across the middle and the intersecting 7s fairly soon, and with the grid thus divided into quadrants things could proceed quite rapidly. Nice crisp clues, and a chuckle when the final penny dropped. Many thanks, MynoT.

[AHearer]

... and I rather fear my lack of attention to detail in the title of my posting will be mirrored in my attempt to ink in the bars in my fair copy!

[Ruthrobin]

We have spent as long gazing at the top and bottom rows as we did solving the rest of the crossword. Like you AHearer, we had that fine central word almost at once and the grid thus filled easily with one smiling penny-drop moment after a bit of head-scratching. Indeed, fine, crisp clues and a final smile. Thank you, Mynot.

[Hagen]

Apologies for starting another thread but no amount of searching brought this one up. I'm just glad that this site's best solvers haven't been dissuaded from posting for fear of being accused of showing off.

MynoT always gives good value for money, and although there isn't a great deal of thematic material this is a nice working of the basic concept and his clues impeccably fair and elegant.

[Alekhine]

Finished this a while ago ... what a feeble piece of work.

41 clues for a 15x13 grid ... and a random phrase for the top and bottom rows. Add to that, a single three-letter answer in each of two rows and you have a puzzle that smacks of "I really couldn't be bothered".

It's good to be back.

[AHearer]

Who's holding the Z cup at the moment? Better get it dusted and polished!

[IainGrace]

Agree that the 15 letter clue made for an easy "in" to this puzzle.

[Philoctetes]

I may have missed something, but I am with Alekhine all the way. I have a phrase, which might explain something, but it is not one I have heard to my knowledge. It certainly does not arise from the puzzle. Unless it is a quote which I cannot trace, surely the first letter is ambiguous anyway. Very much a GWIT endgame.

[starwalker]

Sorry, but I am very much in the Z cup camp on this one. Sucha disappointment from an established and experienced setter. And then there is the endgame . . .

[TheBear69]

Philoctetes, there is nothing random about the phrase (for which there is an authoritative source) so perhaps your criticism is due to having not really solved the puzzle.

[AHearer]

I suppose it's true that, after the required shift, there are a few possibilities for the first letter of line one -- but surely there's only one that leads to unambiguous results for the unclued entries? I admit that the preamble did not specify that there was a unique solution, but I'd be surprised to see alternatives marked as correct. We're being a bit hard on MynoT.

[Hagen]

Indeed there is an authoritative source for the phrase, as The Bear says, but it's unlikely you'd find it without an online search. As is the case with many Listener puzzles these days!

[icynorth]

I haven't yet found the source, but I'm sure I've heard it in some context.

I enjoy the occasional quirky puzzle, and this one posed some different challenges. Thanks, MynoT!

[Alekhine]

Is it fair to say that the so-called authoritative source would probably not have uttered the phrase in the manner expected by the setter?

[midgler]

The source, while interesting, is not needed to solve the puzzle as the phrase itself is in Chambers. No internet activity required!

[Philoctetes]

I confess I had not noticed the phrase in Chambers (I presume that is the authoritative source), and that my point about the first letter was simply me being naughty. But it is still a GWIT endgame.

[Contrarian]

AHearer, I saw that you were one of the winners of the FT crossword this week.
Do you send entries in for lots of non-Listener puzzles? If so, why?

[Cloverjo]

Can someone tell me what GWIT means, please?

[perseverer]

GWIT Guess what I'm thinking

[Hagen]

Like Philoctetes, I hadn't noticed the phrase in Chambers - so my assertion that an online search is needed was wrong. I still maintain that internet access is becoming more and more necessary for solving Listeners - unless you've got time to spent two weeks in a library!

[Scorpius]

I agree that it is a GWIT because one needs to guess what the setter has in mind for the endgame. Completing the top and bottom rows without reference to Chambers might lead to one decision on the two other unclued entries. But the Chambers entry, coupled with the puzzle title, suggests another approach.
How is one to know which?