listener 3975: The cause of much pain by samuel

[midazolam]

this weeks listener is out

hopefully it is not that painful

[cruciverbali]

Thanks midazolam ! Please accept my apologies, I have accidentally deleted your recent e-mail, so I need to thank you publically rather than privately - it was kind of you to send that to me, thank you !!

Cruciverbalist

[bobbycollins]

Seems fairly straightforward so far. Half the grid in an hour or so.

A caveat though. The setter has a high opinion of himself, and there may well be a smart-a***d sting in the tail. We shall see.

[cruciverbali]

I do just wonder whether the preamble should say 'always creating and leaving behind real words' ?

[angrysolver]

bobbycollins, are you aware that Listener setters are people too? You know, ones with feelings? Samuel happens to be a friend of mine. I can assure you that he does not have "a high opinion of himself", beyond being justifiably proud of having had puzzles accepted by the Listener editors, which is pretty much the pinnacle of crossword setting. He's also a thoroughly nice chap, and I'd imagine he doesn't appreciate insulting comments like the one you've made. It's bad enough that people carry on discussing current puzzles on here, but to insult the setters is seriously below the belt.

[midazolam]

having completed the grid but too tired to get the theme, i think bobbycollins wasn't being nasty and was just commenting on the movements of the letters and linking this the word "high" with opinion. Also there is a sting in the tail on first glances

i may be wrong but lets hear what bobbycollins says

[bathtub]

'It's bad enough that people carry on discussing current puzzles...'

So what's wrong with discussion? I thought we lived in a free society.

We generally do avoid giving answers to Listener puzzles, and not a one has been asked for or given in this thread. Offering views like 'I think the puzzle has a sting in its tail', or commenting on whether it's hard or relatively easy, treads on no-one's toes at all.

I'm sure no-one meant to be personally offensive, but in any event comment is allowed and those who set themselves up (crossword compliers included) have to take the rough with the smooth.

I try to respect the sensitivities of Listener devotees, but constant carping about our discussing puzzles, offering hints to would-be solvers and even giving and/or explaining the occasional answer leads me increasingly to the view that they should be allowed no special treatment.

[bobbycollins]

Angrysolver

If the cap fits.... I am not the first to have a mild (not offensive) dig at Samuel. Cast your mind back a couple of years. Do the words own trumpet and blow ring any bells?

To reiterate an earlier point, nobody has given away anything here, so the Listener mafia have absolutely no right to become agitated. For goodness sake, comments on current puzzles have even been made on the Times website.

[midazolam]

going back to the actual thread which is the crossword...

having slept on it overnight a moment of inspiration came upon me to get the theme.

I think it is a clever puzzle and with no ambiguity in the preamble for once

[angrysolver]

bobbycollins,

Samuel has had one previous Listener published - Hunt, in February last year. I do not recall him "blowing his own trumpet" about it, here or anywhere else. If you are referring to something that happened "a couple of years ago", it would therefore seem not to have involved Samuel at all, and an apology to him might therefore be in order?

[magwitch]

I have a great idea! Why don't "The Listener Crowd" (for want of a better term) tell all their friends not to read the messages on this website. Then none of them will ever learn something they don't want to know (hints, insults, whatever...).

[bobbycollins]

That is a good idea, magwitch.

By the way, Samuel's previous Listener provoked an hilarious thread at the Crossword Centre. The poor souls were wetting themselves about the correct colour to choose for highlighting SETI in the completed grid. It was a hoot.

[Quizmonster]

Dear Magwitch, you're flogging a dead horse. I've been suggesting just that for ages, but they don't seem to 'get' it, despite supposedly having brains the size of planets!

By the way, the name I coined for them is 'Listenerites'. The reason I chose that is because it has a ring of 'Israelites' about it and they, too, seem to see themselves as a 'chosen people'. They're allowed to reveal answers to every other prize crossword, but nobody, it seems, is to be allowed to reveal theirs. Absurd!

[angrysolver]

I see you still feel no need to apologise, bobbycollins, in spite of clearly having made a mistake about Samuel - instead you have decided to just slag off Listener solvers in general. How very mature of you...

[bobbycollins]

Steady on angrysolver. NOT Listener solvers in general, just a particularly irritating (small) element thereof.

[angrysolver]

Right, so still no comment on why you think slagging off Samuel is justified. As I have pointed out, he wasn't setting Listeners a couple of years ago, and I also know he doesn't contribute to this site, so I'm not sure where you think you have seen him demonstrating this "high opinion of himself". So kindly withdraw your comment and apologise. I'll then clear off and leave you lot to it...

[bobbycollins]

Really,angrysolver, the word slagging is way to heavy. By the by, an apology was your idea - not mine.

The tone of superiority is terribly irksome and absolutely rests our case.

This spat is at an end (at this end)

[Scorpius]

Not much relevant to the puzzle on this thread (though midazolam made valiant attempts to focus on the puzzle, rather than the setter) . I was taken aback by the unnecessary and insulting remark about the setter, and I'm not surprised angrysolver took exception to it; he was perfectly justified in doing so. At the risk of being thought superior and irksome I also find one or two subsequent comments puerile.

As for the puzzle, I enjoyed the clues and the fairly unusual (and thematically appropriate) way in which extra letters were generated. Having followed the instructions in the preamble I�ve got what I expected to find for highlighting and the �supposed historical event�, but I�m left with a lot of nonsensical entries, so I need to rethink.

[angrysolver]

Yes, bobbycollins, an apology was indeed my idea. It is what you owe Samuel if you can't actually support the remark you made about him, which (whatever you may think) *is* insulting. Any decent person would simply have done so by now, or at the very least justified their initial remark. You have chosen to do neither. If you feel I am acting in a superior manner, I can assure you that your childish behaviour does nothing to make me feel unjustified in doing so.

This "spat" is most definitely not over at this end.

[angrysolver]

And for what it's worth, Mr Teuton, you ought to be more careful in your choice of pseudonym if you wish to have a go at people anonymously...