Listener 4021 Mazy by Salamanca

[Philoctetes]

Still no link, of course. But another that relies heavily on cold solving. And a lovely nod for the Classicists amongst us in the use of "boustrophedon". I suspect more such will appear.

[robinruth]

Cruncher et al., you are very much appreciated. We are underway and will now sleep on it rather than abandoning. I think the thread is a great and very fair way of proceeding and certainly encourages the real newcomers like us to persevere in the face of enormous obstacles.
I do understand that the Listener police don't like it - but they don't have to read it, do they?

[cluelessJoe]

We're rootin' for you Robinruth ... particularly from my perspective because having sussed out " .. ship" you ventured to utter "abandon" in the same sentence.
Don't quit just yet - as others have suggested, the going gets a lot less tough once a few items are interlocked.
Also, continuing Mysteron's post, we all start low - I think my first year saw me finish two, and maybe twenty two the next. Checking the past 5 years' stats, and taking an arbitrary 60% of solvers from John Green's numbers, these amassed respectively 5,3,3,6,7 correct puzzles ... if you are bettering those numbers, you are already into the top 40% (and that's of those who bother to submit!)
Stick with it

[Walterloo]

When I first started to battle through this puzzle I genuinely thought I wouldn't crack it. I may be a grown up, but I had quite a childlike chill run up my spine thinking that I would be the only one to falter. But, and this has been mentioned before, to know that others are/were also straining through it is enough to make you sit down, take a breath and have another go, even without reading the quite brilliantly subtle hints.

Starwalker, you may be a relative newcomer to these puzzles, but your simple comment in an earlier thread saying that once you'd cracked 1d (a clue I will never ever forget) that things became more straightforward, well, that was another little boost. At that time I hadn't got the answer to that clue. But your comment made me think that it was achievable. Simple, really, but it worked. Hence the 'legend' comment.

[jamesah]

Thanks, Flocko. All finished now after a very slow start. 1dn was the key as I had completely the wrong answer for a long time ('dispenser' which nearly worked but I was never convinced by). It's certainly a matter of perseverance and the occasional flash of inspiration. Yet another brilliant puzzle- many thanks to Salamanca.

[jamesah]

Incidentally, one clue I don't understand. The one beginning with 'Firm'. Any explanations welcome.

[Philoctetes]

Jamesah - the third word applies to the first two, then the seventh applies to the sixth, and the overall clue is the definition!
I think the latter few posts here are the perfect response to the Thought Police. When I first started on crosswords seriously, it was as one of a group of friends working on them together in the common room or coffee lounge. Then, when I started work, many of my colleagues did the same puzzles on their own, but sought encouragement to get over difficulties. "No, don't tell me, let me work it out" was the guiding principle. This sort of friendly help is what we get, and offer, here.

[midazolam]

i must say as well, Walterloo, that your comments are very kind but i still have a lot to learn. I only started the Listener in 2007, progressing from the jumbo times. I was approx 1 in 4 at the start, but by the end of the year i was up to 3 in 4. Last year was much better, but I am still not in the league of the all correct solvers (probably some are among us here on this site). This year has started well so far.

I must also say that it is understanding the cluing of advanced thematic cryptics that has been my breakthrough with completing these crosswords. Realising i = in, n = and, t = the, o = of/on, a = from/of/all, s = is/has/us etc etc has really helped me progress over this time.

solving aids like quinapalus are regularly consulted and i do not think it is cheating. Likewise, as mentioned above, nor do i feel this site is cheating. To give others a nudge in the right direction in order to get that PDM we all enjoy every week, keeps me writing here. Crikey, the nudges you have given me just shows how one can improve.

[fancydan]

I have one square to fill. Pointed suggests a "Y" answer. Weapons suggest an "S". I have the first three letters. Any hints please

[jamesah]

Thanks, Philoctetes. As usual, I worked it out as soon as I had asked the question on here! I thought that was the only one but I don't understand the answer to 'roofed front part' either.

[turnerjmw]

Fancydan, the definition is the first two words., so the Y is a false trail. Apply the middle part of the clue to an example of the last word

[fancydan]

Thanks turnerjmw.
Did not want to flounder over one letter after such a long chase

[Patch49]

I'm having trouible finding a path of 31 squares - mine is either shorter or longer. Is this figure confirmed?

[midazolam]

31

[Ythelon]

It is very interesting to note how the discussion has moved on to the value of the site especially for those who are attempting The Listener as relative newcomers; I admire their tenacity and am very impressed by the speed with which they progress- perhaps because of the support they have received from the regular contributors to the site. I can remember the feeling of triumph when we solved a clue and, in the first year, the submission of a solution was a rare event indeed. I think that we managed four.

'We' has become 'I'; I was boring. From my perspective the site has been enormously helpful,in general because of the positive spirit with which the regulars contribute, and , in particular, as an old-stager who has had lots of periods of cruciverbial constipation, because of lack of time and illness, serious and totally unexpected, when even the simplest Listener seems beyond him. On several occasions you have nudged me towards the PDM -and it is amazing how that moment lifts the mood and makes the day and week seem good.

I have hovered on the site, been impressed by how helpful the regular contibutors have tried to be; I would contribue more but fear that my questions would be too specific.

If there are regulars or other hoverers in my boat I am [email protected].

[Apache4D]

Jamesah, I believe that "roofed front part" is the definition with two further words being involved in an anagram (indicated by the final word), there is one clear instruction (indicated by a single word) with the proceeding two words indicating the subject and location to conduct the instruction upon.

Apologies if this is too vague, don't want to spoil it for those still solving this one.

I for one having just 5 cells remaining, with the lurker and the majority of the chain completed......was a bit stuck with a surprising run of unchecked letters, but only 3 clues remain to be solved!

I would concur with everyone's comments about the contributors to this thread, there's little more I can add!

Hopefully one final push this evening will have it cracked......I think the key to the listener is perseverence and a desire to keep going till it is complete, and above all enjoyment! As previously mentioned this is my first year and have managed to complete the previous 6, and am hoping to make this number 7, but I am devoting a serious amount of time to the grids, so it's really just down to grit and determination rather than skill!

[Cruncher]

I'm really impressed by the learning curves of some of you guys. I first started toying with the listener in the early 1990s when there was the offer of a rather smart watch for the lucky winner and for many years struggled to get even 50% correct. The all-correct still eludes me - had high hopes this year after a bit of leg-up on this site with Radix's puzzle over the summer when I was languishing completely book-less in the Egyptian sun - but the absence of the dinner invitation so far leads me to suspect that I made some other slip along the way. Tant pis - as one might say of one's incontinent Parisian aunt - anyway the fun is in the solving and, though it offends the purists, in the camaraderie and banter of these threads (or should that be cords....)

[robinruth]

Robinruth here again. With all that encouragement, we are still labouring and do have some of the grid filled, but with a lot of doubt and many clues yet to solve. I am fairly sure we won't manage this one. We were beginners (complete) with Francs' Three Rings and have managed three others since then,but simply didn't know where to start two. However, you have given us confidence to keep on.
Help like that information about the Listener meaning of individual letters is invaluable for us, as we have not encountered those before (in AZED or Spectators, for example). It is a much appreciated tutorial.
We do find that where we have no letters to help, the hints, like the one about the 'weapon - sharp points' clue, are not giving too much away - at least, not to us!
Thanks, all.

[jamesah]

Thanks Apache4D- some really tough wordplay there. I also think that this a great site where just a hint can help to find the final step in some fantastic crosswords. Many thanks to all contributors!

[Apache4D]

Well I have finally finished, I must say that there were some real gems and some interesting new (well to me anyway!) words......unfortunately I have one cell (start of the chemicals clue) that I am only 90% on.....I believe it is linked to "are" rather than the letter "i" which also yields a chemical compound.

I detached the answer from the preceeding across clue intersection (above the clue entry), making the initial letter unchecked.....

Honestly I think I have finished haha! Major problem being that I now have 2 days to wait till the next one!

[u10]

Apache - your "a" is correct. Are = a + .......... I can't see how to justify the i start to the word. I've filled the grid, found the lurker and am now looking for a path through the maze. Can anyone give me a hint? I'm guessing we start with cord or cords but I get lost after that.