listener 4028

[fancydan]

any thoughts on Mr E's latest.
The number connection fills me with dread.
Have solved about half of the clues and found several clashes.
Cheers

[IntoTheBlue]

Another puzzle that I enjoyed immensely. The PDM only fully came to me when I solved my final clue at 27d to give the words for the two objects.

I agree with uncletony and see the curved path as 'breaking' from right to left before straightening for its final destination.

I saw the numbers within the 36 square region and the three additional cells predicting the final score before the final shot is taken, assuming a miss, but once the final shot is taken and the outcome is positive it means one of the numbers in the 36 region needs amendment and subsequently the total square as well.

Before the curved line is drawn 33a gives the state of play and when the line is drawn with the successful outcome you have the title. (I could be totallly wrong of course...)

IntoTheBlue

[dix-dixie]

Hmmmm..... are you you? And is there any way to decide?

[dix-dixie]

Haha! Silly question. That's what comes of cutting out the grid and not having the title/setter names in front of you!! sorry all

[scooterbug]

Before reading any of the responses, I had concluded that the larger shape would be moved "around" the end of the word (i.e., a letter inside a shape), so that the effort would literally end at its destination. Which would still leave the problem of an empty cell, from which the larger shape would be moved.

I gather that the consensus would also result in (a) a letter inside a shape and (b) an empty cell.

I think the denouement is unclear at best, detracting from an otherwise superb puzzle.

[Mysterons]

No ambiguity for this solver - as ITB says, before the final play, the solver lies n and the setter has predicted the wrong outcome (n + 2). The curved arrow is the Indication of (n + 1) referred to by the title. We are to assume this contest is SP not MP.

(shelouse, 27 and 40 are two of the four clues referred to at the end of the preamble's second paragraph, both answers one letter longer than indicated. 27 is a cryptic definition clue, 40 a 'container' (3 in 4) clue.)

[AHearer]

Of course, we'd have no difficulty in believing the twisted path if the whole thing turned out ot be of the crazy variety!

[perseverer]

Watch tv towards the end of the week and you will see plenty of erratic paths.

Re 27d, my squares are rectangular, not square!

[Cruncher]

Great puzzle! I got stuck trying to with PELE in 26 ac which didn't work, and I am embarrassed to say that I googled early Beatles' hits before the penny dropped re 38 ac.... ):

And it took me a long time to realise that the middle letter of the last line of the 3x3 wasn't superfluous at all.

I imagine there may be some dispute about the correct representation of the shapes cell - there was an incredibly picky thread about the latitude allowed on the asymmetry of the infinity sign a few weeks ago.

[scooterbug]

Mysterons, I agree with your interpretation of the applicable clue. But I found the use of the word "next" to be confusing. And it seems to relate to the definition, not the wordplay.

As you say, the solver lies "n" before the final play. Which suggests to me that the solver next lies "n+1" after the final play. In that case, 33 would refer to "n+1" and the title would refer to "n+2". Which I believe is different than your (and my) interpretation.

Also, how did you come out on the shape movement issue?

Thanks.

[cluelessJoe]

Seems that pelehouse was an easy trap to fall into Cruncher as it had me for a while too ... one of those (presumably unintentionally) alternative answers which seemed a good fit given that pelehouses shelter cattle and a boss is also a cow or calf.
Now the stats are available, did you find out which of last years' entries tripped you up on the quest for the all-correct yet?

[Mysterons]

I did share your concern regarding next to in 33 for a while scooterbug. However, I believe that it is part of the wordplay, and has been included to greatly improve the surface reading - because before the final play, what you lie next to certainly is flat. The wordplay thus reads:

next to (an abbreviation for) is (place a word for) flat

(The preamble makes it pretty clear that the curved arrow indicates the way the smaller shape is relocated.)

[Philoctetes]

I too enjoyed being locked in a pelehouse listening to teh Beatles.
As for stats, I found I only got two with genuine errors - very encouraging - and several too many where I had the right answer but transcribed it wrongly into my entry grid - very frustrating.

[Cruncher]

Don't know yet CJoe - remember putting ELIGIBLE in letters rather than upside down LED numbers in Oyler's puzzle so that was probably enough.
How did you do?

[cluelessJoe]

Still waiting for them to arrive - though on recent form, I probably managed to screw up 3 or 4 on transcription errors like Philoctetes.

[Philoctetes]

Re: the title. I woke up this morning thinking of trig points on maps. On an OS map the indication of height is a dot. Could this indicate how the smaller object is to be depicted? And make the title relevant?

[Apache4D]

Well I am ashamed to say I have yet to finish this one, and am starting to tire, especially with 4029 burning a hole in my pocket (no pun intended).

I have the 36 digits, the 3x3 key, the 3 additional double digits, and four clues that I have answers for that do not match the answers length.

Unfortunately my letters for the intersections around the "special" cells do not seem to easily mesh, but I am adamant that all four answers are correct! So, I am four crucial grid insertions short and cannot make the final play.

Hence, I am struggling, have enjoyed it immensely though and as others have said when the theme became clear it was a great feeling.

My solves of the four consist of a simple anagram with a clever definition, two pleasing cryptic definitons, and a straight forward "do exactly as it says" clue.

Have been thinking about the title but beyond what others have aired haven't cracked it yet.

[Mysterons]

The 'receptacle' should be formed at the junction of 26 (answer defined in 2 halves in the wordplay) and 20 (anagram), the 'object' at the junction of 40 (container wordplay, 3 in 4)) and 27(cryptic definition).

The 'indication' referred to in the title is the curved arrow, 'height' representing (n+1), where 33 = n.

[Apache4D]

Agree with everything you say Mysterons, and am confident that I have everything correct.....have the curved thematic word from the two objects, but the intersections are elluding me (last two of the cryptic definition don't seem to marry with any of the first three of the container clue, and likewise 6/7 letters of the tower clue do not mesh with the obviously correct anagram).

Thanks, and am giving myself till the end of the day, then will chalk it up as first failure of year and move onto Office block. Cheers!

[Mysterons]

It sounds like you have the two down answers correct (supplying the second digraph in each theme word)

The 'container' clue at 40 takes the form of abbbaaa, where trouble = bbb

[Apache4D]

Mysterons, yeah I am certain I have 40 across right, fits in with your construct and was in me opinion one of those blatant clues that just "jumps right out" at you.......same with 20 down and I am assuming the digraph comes from ...XX. of the answer. There is no way that 27 down is incorrect....hmmmmm maybe I have 26 across wrong, but was certain with that.

I think there is just a short-circuit in my brain...thanks for your guidance as it has confirmed that "cryptically" I was not going insane, just "thematically". What a palaver!! Apologies on my part to all that have already solved, I know it is tedious to read of someone being so slow!