Listener 4,047: Cut Out by Lato

[s436]

I wonder how people are getting on with this one. I found that all but one of the "normal" clues fell in fairly quickly, but now I'm staring at an almost-full grid with no idea how to progress. Any thoughts on how to go about tackling the thematic material?

[munkybiskitz]

After much chuntering about the definitions to the associated entries (mainly because I'd got both 3-letter words wrong originally) I now concede this was quite a clever puzzle. Thanks (and sorry) Lato. Just hope my tippexing isn't interpreted as some bizarre additional highlighting (should have used pencil, I know).

[thebuzz999]

Yes, u10, I meant 27a not 24a for the extra word that goes the the 3-letter entry. I had already found it in Chambers but I just consider the extra word a very poor definition for the fulll associated version.

[7lattens]

The 2 three letter words are little blighters - I have a possibility for the bottom one but can not find the formed association definition for this as an extra word.

As regards to the top 3 letter word - by deduction this should tie up with a seasonal offering but again this definition word is not jumping out at me and it doesn't help that 11a is still elusive - how obscure is this word ?

[robinruth]

Pretty obscure, I think. I have been away and have only just started, but found that one - use Bradford to look up the last word and search for a word that is part of a compound. The first part of that compound (plural of a five letter singular word in Chambers) is your culprit.

[cluelessJoe]

Strangely enough bobbycollins, Bobby Collins did play in the first game I ever attended (as did John Charles, Jack Charlton & Billy Bremner - those were the days). However crushing, I reckon I'd trade a 1-6 against Arsenal for our 1-0 win against Wycombe!
(Apologies to other parties for the off-topic posting)

[Scorpius]

A bottom three-letter word that links to the extra word seems a very poor link to the relevant thematic item. Another word would provide a far more precise link with the thematic item but not with the extra word. I don't think this particular entry has been well thought out.

[u10]

Scorpiys - I have the extra word in 27a linking with the small three letter word at the bottom. I could be wrong but my link to the extra word is the four letter word at the bottom right hand corner of the grid.

[cluelessJoe]

I can't really agree with you there Scorpius. Although I really don't like the general construct of the puzzle (and 20,6 particularly jars), I reckon that the links as a whole are generally fair and unambiguous. When you talk of the three letter word that links 'to the extra word,' thence to 'the thematic item', I don't think that is the way it works ... surely it is the three letter word in combination with (some of) the thematic item - i.e. 'the full associated version' which has to be linked to the extra word. That full combination - for me at least - does give a clear link to the extra word in question.

[Scorpius]

Yes, you're right, cluelessjoe. I did have in mind the full associated version when I posted my message but I wasn't happy with either of my two possibilities for the bottom 3-letter entry and searched Chambers further for something more satisfactory, which did emerge.
My main complaint about the puzzle was a construction that involved an important unclued entry (32) crossed by 3 other unclued entries, resulting in only two checked letters in a 7-letter entry.

[Deviant]

Nearly caught up from holiday now. Just got 1 letter (middle top row) and the highlighting to do. I suppose I can guess what to highlight, but I'd like to know the rationale.

[midazolam]

see the wikipedia entry regarding "32" it gives the rationale, deviant

[Deviant]

Hmm. I guess Wikipedia's definition of the included 15 isn't quite the same as mine. It's a fairly arbitrary choice IMO. I see where that one's coming from if the other obvious item is excluded, so I've just got to work out the last of the 8.

Is the combination for the top 3 letter word in Chambers?

[Deviant]

Forget that plea. Just realised what the answer must be.

[perseverer]

Deviant - I presume that omitting the obvious item is a question literally of stature compared with the rest.

[Philoctetes]

I too have one letter, the lowest one, to complete. May I confirm that it links to the shortest word in another clue and in some way refers to a thematic association itself of two elements the second of which is the sort of thing that couldn't possible be clued sensibly so that it must be the first element that is part of the association

[7lattens]

The top 3 letter word has just "dropped" into place - it helped once I realised that I was trying to associate it with the wrong title (hark the heralds - heigh-ho) - Having said this I am still struggling with 11a - I have the Kipling inside but aaagh thereafter.

Also can anyone enlightem me on "Bradford" - it sounds like a useful addition to good old chambers - what is the full publication title please

[Ruthrobin]

Anne R Bradford - Bradford's Crossword Solver's Dictionary ISBN 978-0-00-727464-2
I find it absolutely invaluable. Derek Harrison from the 'other' website calls it 'simply the best' in a quotation on the front cover. Amazon stock it, of course. I don't know how people manage without it.

[7lattens]

Thanks Ruthrobin - a trip to Waterstones it is then - baring total ignorance - what is the "other website"

[Ruthrobin]

7lattens, put an S in front of what you 'have' and go to Chambers. OK?

[Ruthrobin]

The 'other' site (which totally disapproves of this one) is for the very serious setters and solvers of crosswords and never permits any mention of a competition crossword until after results are published. It is Derek Harrison's 'Crossword Centre' - click on the 'message board'. The same discussions as on this thread tend to take place but only three weeks later with some brilliant minds disecting the Listener crosswords. Take a look at the discussion of OOOOPPPP by Raich - very funny in places and most erudite.