DT Herculis

[chamois]

27a Another name for aardvark. I've got a?t?e?r. Have I gone wrong somewhere?

Thanks

[sarumite]

Ant bear

[chamois]

Thanks sarumite. I was looking for a seven-letter word rather than a (3,4). Slapped wrist for Kate!

Thanks again.

[Catron]

Not a slapped wrist for Kate at all.

antbear n the great anteater, the largest species of anteaters, found in swampy regions in S America; the aardvark of S Africa. (Chambers)

[chamois]

Hmm, I don't know about that catron,

Kate and her late dad have always used Credo Reference, formerly Xrefer Plus to set the crosswords.

This metasearch engine currently checks around 353 reference works when a word is put into the the search box including all the dictionaries I've seen mentioned on here - her clues are often taken verbatim from Credo accessed definitions.

Only one obscure and vague reference to "antbear" comes up when it's spelt like that, yet there are 64 results for "ant bear". Rightly or wrongly, she could have made it easier had she inserted (3,4) at the end of the clue rather than (7). Besides, given the number of references to "ant bear" as opposed to "antbear" it's clear which one is correct.

[chamois]

Incidentally, I note your quote comes from Chambers. No definition came up when I searched for it via Credo so I tried the Chambers website.

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/featu res/chref/chref.py/main

No results are found for "antbear". Nor is there an entry for "ant bear" even though the service tries to make some suggestions.

I can only assume you're taking the definition from an older hard copy of Chambers.

[Catron]

Sorry, wrong - my Chambers is not an old copy at all. Besides which, the Oxford dictionaries also have antbear as a seven letter word rather than 3-4.

Why should Kate and/or her staff use a particular way of compiling crosswords to suit you, anyway? - if they want to use just Chambers or any other dictionary that is their prerogative.

[DaisyMae]

Oxford online dictionary has - antbear, another name for aadvark. No mention of ant bear. Incidentally, I have always used the single seven letter word antbear, it is unfamiliar to me as a two word description.

[chamois]

You're missing the point Catron. Just remember that not everyone is as priveleged as you in having a hard copy of the work. Those that don't have to rely on the online version. The point is that that those that use the online version do so in good faith expecting it to be an online version of the one you have, Clearly it is not. This further muddies the waters.

What are the "oxford dictionaries"? Are you talking about the Shorter Oxford, the pocket version, the definitive work or the OED online? There's no such thing as the "oxford dictionaries". You really should be specific.

Now I've cleared that up, I suggest you return to the OED online if that's where you've found "anteater". Do me a favour and type in "ant eater" into the search box. Notice anything? Yes, "ant eater" also has two entries just like "anteater". If you really wish to prove that I'm wrong over this issue, at least get your facts right before posting.

I agree the spelling is their prerogative. They're not doing it to suit me. Nevertheless hands up those that have never had cause to question their definition or spelling of a word? Come on Catron, don't be afraid to put your hand up.

DaisyMae, as I said above it's spelt both ways in the OED.

[chamois]

Oops,where I've written "ant eater" in the above post, please read it as "ant bear". The definitions are there catron despite your assertion in the second sentence of your last post. The last time I looked "ant bear" is 3-4.

[Aquagility]

I think you should both accept that most experienced cruciverbalists simply accept thet even Homer nods, and quickly pass on to more important (or at least interesting) things.

[Catron]

Ok, prove to me that the OED online has antbear as two words, not anteater but antbear, and I will concede the point - but I say it will not.

Even if does however, the very fact that two renowned hard-copy English dictionaries, Chambers and the one volume Oxford Dictionary of English, have spelling as antbear ONLY means Kate is not wrong to have used it the way she has.

Yes, sometimes Kate and/or her compiler gets a definition wrong but her speliings are nearly always in Chambers and if they are not are still easily found elswehere.

[Aquagility]

I rest my case!

[Catron]

You rest your case on what Aquagility? It is no business of yours so who are you to say what is more interesting or less so to others? Your remarks, just as the other day, are of no importance to me either! LOL,

[DaisyMae]

The Concise Oxford Dictionary (Tenth Edition) shows only antbear - even if you type ant bear into the search box it still comes back with 'antbear'

[chamois]

Aquagility, I've always held you in great respect on AB as have many others. Please accept my apologies on behalf of those others for the presence of an uncouth individual on AB this evening. To my mind, the abrupt and boorish remarks directed at you by Catron are indicitive of the true nature of the individual.

Catron you asked for it, so here it is:

http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50009178?s ingle=1&query_type=word&queryword=ant+bear&fir st=1&max_to_show=10

I look forward to hearing from you shortly. I assume you have a username and password to view the page concerned. If not, I can provide you with a temporary set. I really wouldn't want you to miss seeing it for yourself.

Incidentally, you still insist upon mentioning the concise, shorter versions of the OED as if they are definitive. They are not. The online version of the OED contains ALL the definitions in the full multi-volume set of the OED and this is the only OED used by true lexicographers. Please don't try to convince me that the shorter versions such as the "one volume Oxford Dictionary of English" should be treated with such authority. They are condensed versions, which makes it impossible for them to provide authoritative definitions of all words along with their etymologies. Consequently, they are NOT definitive despite your views to the contrary.

At least conced that Kate should have been aware that there was more than one way to spell this word. I've always spelt it as "ant bear" as per the OED. Nevertheless the fact remains that to her mind there was only one way of spelling it. That's wrong and therefore she was wrong.

I wonder sometimes why we bother with the OED when people like you seem to think that chambers is the only dictionary in existence.

[chamois]

DaisyMae, as I said in the above post, these shorter versions of the OED are lacking in detail and definitions. This is why it only shows "antbear". They are a "one size fits all" dictionary and should be treated as such.

As I've just said to Catron, the full version does contain "ant bear"

[Catron]

Your apology on behalf of Aquagilty is unwarranted and needless - they can stick up for themselves perfecty well and you have absolutely no idea of what has preceded my comments!

Ok, I accept that the OED online has ant bear but I say again, why should Kate or any other compiler use any dictionary to suit you? How do you know what Kate is or is not aware of? Yes, of course I come back to hard-copy dictionaries - that is what most people have, rather than pay to have OED online, and to say that Kate and other compilers are wrong to use them as their source, which is effect what you are doing, is facile.

Enough. You have your opinion that Kate is wrong but as far as others are concerned she is correct. She does not have to accede to your wishes and to think that she does makes you a first class snob. I have to wonder, as you clearly think Kate is not worthy of being 'true lexicographers', why you bother with the output from this team - they are clearly beneath your lofty ideals!

I trust you have written to Kate to point out her 'mistake'?

Goodbye chamois. It is a pity that you have to 'slap wrist(s)' of those who are trying to provide something for your amusement but that is your look-out.

[chamois]

Aww, poor Catron. Who's a bad loser then? How puerile! You denied the existence of "ant bear" in the OED and you were proved wrong.

As for Aquagility, sorry but I've got great respect for him. He's one of the "elder statesmen" here on AB and your derogatory remarks were unwarranted and disgusting no matter what preceded your comments. Incidentally, I don't have to know the details - your attitude stinks. Let's hope you confine your ignorant jibes to the cyber world. I'd hate to think you talk to people like this face to face. Hmm, on second thoughts perhaps you're on a quest to collect a black eye.

Sorry, but I don't pay for the OED online. You see Catron, your limited intellect may not be be able to appreciate that most people that carry a library card in the UK have access to the OED online via their library service for free. There are millions who can access the service. Just accept that's it's you who are in a minority, with your tatty copy of Chambers. You can't remain in the past forever Catron. Oh by the way, I access it via ATHENS and like library card holders, I don't pay for it either. But then, I don't suppose you know what that ATHENS is either.

Tell me, what entitles you to tell me enough? What entitles you to tell me that as far as everyone else is concerned, Kate is right. How do you know? Are you some sort of omnipotent being capable of collecting the views of the majority? Or is it that you think that everyone thinks like you? What a thought!

[chamois]

As for your continual promotion of Chambers Dictionary, I've got news for you. A metasearch of any given clue via a metasearch engine will show that the clue has been taken from Collins English Dictionary most often. Could you be a scrabble fan? You'd be better off sticking to what you know and watching "Countdown" every afternoon. .

No, I've not written to Kate. In life we all make mistakes and to do so over a matter like this would be puerile. It's happened and that's it and she's no different to the rest of us.. On the other hand, I do wish there was some way of censoring those people who insist that they are right even when they've been proved wrong. I note your fondness for possibly partially conceding your mistake yet sticking to your guns over other beliefs. Learn to give it up Catron - it's tedious and does not bode well for your entry into puberty.

[chamois]

Incidentally, I never said that Kate was wrong to use any other dictionary other than the OED. I made no comment on the sources Kate uses, so please don't accuse me of being facile, which is a rather inappropriate word. Off you go to the dictionary Catron! Look up prevaricator while you're there and see if you recognise someone.

Just accept that no matter what, it's the definitive work recognised the World over. Chambers has no such renown. Chambers is like the Mirriam-Webster dictionary in the USA - largely confined to that country only.

I suggest you go off and join your local library tomorrow Catron and then you can realise the wonder that is the OED. I do appreciate it's more difficult to get you head around than Chambers but persevere - who knows, it might broaden you horizons.