LIstener 4074 - Printer's Devilry by Qid

[daagg]

This was a good mix of lots of different techniques. Progress was steady until a major PDM when I realised what the keywords were. After that it was very straightforward. I was rather uncomfortable for a while because I had a wrong, but apparently satisfying, answer to 5dn - however this resolved itself.

[Mysterons]

Sounds intriguing daagg, I look forward to seeing this and shall watch out for 5 down.

By the way, you mentioned "quadruple definition" clues on a previous Listener thread. Here is an example from a recent Azed crossword:

"Garden produce, money matter ? Nonsense (5)

[AHearer]

I liked this construction: some of the misprints were quite tricky to spot, but all fair. I could have done without the 2,4,4,2 phrase which seemed a bit of a let-down.

[Zabadak]

Good fun all round, though I found myself working backwards to spot some of the misprints. I thought the phrase at the end was cleverly apposite, given the limitations of the letters used. Very annoyed with myself for not getting 11a until really late in the day!

[Mysterons]

Yes, a clever construction, though perhaps a little too easy to find the keywords by simply researching the theme, and good that all 4-letter entries are real words.

[AHearer]

Funnily enough, Zabadak, 11ac was one of thelast ones I got, too. Yes Mysterons, I thought that was one of the really neat features of the construction.

[daagg]

There was a lot of pattern in this construction, which helped get to the end faster. I agree that the elements of the theme only hang together a bit tenuously, but I really like the way the different types of clue work together.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes Daagg, indeed, spotting the key words made all the difference. Until that point I was almost in despair. 11ac was my last one too. I though this was another very difficult one!

[dr b]

Hi all. I'm new to the Listener thread as I've only been doing it since the turn of the year (only recently subscribed to Times Crossword Club). But I've been lurking........... (imagine spooky music here).

I agree that the last two have been a step up in difficulty (As a veteran of the EV and Spec, I was beginning to wonder what the fuss was all about). I had a bit of an advantage on this one, as way back in the day (1977) I took a "print shop" class in high school, where we learned to cast type on a very ancient Linotype (it was used to print the school newspaper, among other things). Given later developments in printing technology that turned out to be one of the more useless classes I ever took - until today. I found it helpful on this one to set up a spreadsheet that would do the "encoding" automatically.

[daagg]

Dr B, welcome to this forum. My introduction to the keywords was via a popular book on AI (GEB for short) in the early 1980s. They were very popular then in that field and, as I was at a formative age, they stuck. Like you, I didn't have a use for them until now.

[tilbee]

Always most satisfying when appears very complex, but gradually clarity emerges. I found that once started cold solving certain patterns became clear quickly, which assisted greatly. Only having Chambers, the keywords remained a mystery to me until late on and a quick search on Google (once I had deciphered one). This helped on the other and helped me complete after a long afternoon.

PS: 11ac me too !

[perseverer]

May be slightly irrelevant, but can anyone explain why if you look through the Answerbank crosswords "Ask the Question" pages, this thread does not appear? I got so used to the Search facility not working in the past I always try to bookmark the Listener threads as they appear (trying to avoid actually reading them till I have completed the puzzle.)

[catstail]

Perseverer - I find it by searching Listener 4074 (or no. as approp.).
After your post I searched for it under crosswords and it was not there - but I found it under Quizzes and puzzles. As I write this it is on page 11.

Am admiring the skills of the fast solvers. Without giving anything away are there any hints on finding extra letters would help as so many words could be changed by just one letter. I might have the key words - if they are the one I found on wiki - but need to remain convinced.

[Mysterons]

The 'Crosswords' thread was a late starter this week, but can be foundhere:

http://www.theanswerb...s/Question864796.html


Catstail - there is one misprinted example of each of the 12 letters in the 2 key words, and these 12 letters correct to the same 12 in a different order (the required 4 word anagram). The 12 clues affected are fairly evenly spaced and all have answers the correct length for the grid entry (greater than 4 letters)

[midazolam]

Late start on this last night but i found this difficult even though i had the keywords after getting 1 across. If Linotype was not mentioned in the preamble I would have struggled even more. I enjoyed the challenge but the theme was over too early for me together with a few very tenuous misprints. On the plus side 90deg symmetry, good cluing (11 across for me too!), and the real words after encoding. Pleasing listener début Qid.

[starwalker]

Finally got around to finishing this after playing catch-up with the previous two week's puzzles. Cannot recall seeing this setter before.
Interesting to see that the level of difficulty appears to have been raised whilst I was away.
Also good to see some new names joining the thread.

[Clamzy]

For those newcomers who may not know, you can access the OED on line by using your Library tciket number - a feature which was very useful in this puzzle which I enjoyed. Thanks Qid.

[Mysterons]

Thanks for the reminder Clamzy - here is a link for Credo:

http://www.credorefer...A32BD83DF72E4ED8A20ED

[cluelessJoe]

Very challenging for me as I'd never encountered the keywords & have no OED. I did not much like several of the misprints and it did end up a little tedious once keywords identified. Yes, good symmetry, some neat clues, and praise for the real words throughout - though I suspect the setter derived much more pleasure from a clever feat of construction than I ultimately did from solving it. Well done qid

[cluelessJoe]

.... and thanks Clamzy / Mysterons but by library unfortunately does not subscribe to either Oxfordreference (it used to, I guess times are hard) or Credoreference, so the service is not going to work for everybody .. Oxford is at

http://www.oxfordrefe...m/pub/views/home.html

[Ruthrobin]

Although I have completed this, I have a peculiar misprint that I can't resolve in 35ac. I know my solution is correct as it fits the definition (though that seems to overlap with the wordplay) and intersects correctly with six words. Obviously I have the incorrect and correct misprinted letters (to get the 2,4,4,2 phrase etc.) Am I alone in having this dilemma?