Listener 4084: Oh Yes It Does! by BeRo

[Zabadak]

This is fun, possibly a good introduction to the Listener genre for newcomers, without compromising quality. There are still some words no-one could be expected to know out of there usual vocab, but they're all well enough clued and findable even in my 2003 Chambers. I would be interested to know if others share my observation that there's some ambiguity in the instruction concerning the seven word phrase: I tried one plausible method before I was sure of all my letters and got nonsense, but it emerged soon enough after by another way of understanding.
Thanks to BeRo for an amusing take on clue construction and a pleasant journey towards (for me) a familiar place.

[dr b]

I also found the phrase "symmetrical appearance" to be very helpful.

[Ruthrobin]

and look in the usual and obvious place!

[daagg]

I apologise for erring too much on the side of cautiousness with my tip. I was certainly not recommending anyone to read Chambers from cover to cover! As Dr B says, a targeted search based on that word is the way to proceed.

[Nicola]

My Dad got the grid answers, but I found the 10 letter word... :-) Nicola

[tristram37]

Got there! I'd thought it would be like that, but I don't think the first few words of the line of verse do actually suggest it, other than by a bit of lateral thinking.

[qwerty99]

.

[qwerty99]

Hello all, new here. Started doing the Listener again recently after a lay-off for a year. A couple of tough ones recently, especially the Sabre; thought this one was very good. For a second I thought I had found the 10 letter word at 20 across with the following A forming an anagram, but realised it was an R short, and didn't comply with any of the other criteria in the preamble anyway. And I was looking for the wrong word. Found the correct one shortly thereafter. Has anyone done the EV today? Very "entry-level", but the answer to 20dn is ambiguous. And, with reference to some recent posts, rather un-PC!

[AndrewG-S]

I agree EV was very much entry level. 20d is ambiguous and "offensive" according to chambers this time. Still hunting the 10 letter word and wondering how it can be symmetrical...

[qwerty99]

The10 letter word is symmetrical, but not 360 degrees symmetrical. The more I think of 20d in today's EV, the more offensive I think it is!

[Mysterons]

The word is vertically symmetrical about the midline, but horizontally symmetrical about row 6 Andrew. It precisely represents Chambers second definition of the nounal form of the second word from the line in question tristram.

[AndrewG-S]

Many thanks for the help, I have it now. Part of the problem was picking the wrong first few words, my fault for not reading the preamble closely enough!

[Clamzy]

qwerty99 - For those of us who have not seen the EV, will you post 20dn here?
Thanks

[qwerty99]

"Ditch girl from Lesbos?" (4). In the grid, the 2nd letter is an unch, hence the ambiguity, it could be I or Y.

[shelouse]

Lovely puzzle, especially the pdm with the title. Thanks, Bero

I had been going to query the clue to 18a, until a 'thorough search of Chambers' revealed the (former) abbreviation required.

Still not entirely happy with the justification for 1a. Can anyone enlighten me, please?

[bobbycollins]

shelouse, I'm probably wrong, but I had "among" and "pocket" doing the same job, and am happy to be corrected. Look closely at the definition in Chambers.

Hope it's not giving too much away to say that it isn't a type 4 (blue in the bc colour code)

[bobbycollins]

mea culpa, I meant the entry

[teuchter2]

Many belated thanks Ruthrobin for your help with understanding the French lawyer. I can now be satisfied with my answer.

[shelouse]

bobbycollins: I had much the same idea, but have this clue listed as a green in your terminology.

Actually, I like your way of doing it - I always use a book of squared paper (like the stuff the French write letters on - and having copied out the clue nos I had four columns besdie them: + - M N. So you are a long way from being the only sad one.

[bellabee]

bobbycollins - re your posting monday 11.15 - i think among and (in) pocket do different jobs. shelouse - agree with green. there is an entry for 'in pocket' in chambers but not in bold. what do you think?

[bobbycollins]

green here as well !!