News43 mins ago
Star Formation.
How can clouds of gas in the vacuum of space coalesce to produce the enormous pressures and temperatures necessary to begin fusion?
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Jim - // If you take nothing else from this thread, take that point -- the point you're making using the example is of course valid -- ie, that science is constantly progressing -- but the example isn't. //
Thank you for that.
I am delighted to offer another explanation which will hopefully pass muster -
The ancient maps of the earth had the legend 'There Be Dragons' at the edges, because at the time, people believed a ship sailing too near the edge of the world would either succumb to a famished mythical beast, or simply all off the edge into oblivion.
Not an inreasonable assumption when people knew nothing of what lay beyond the horizon that they could see.
But of course, maps don't say that any more, because we know it's not true - but it was the school of thought at the time, so everyone simply accepted it.
Science will eventually discover and explain every unexplained phenomenon there is - how that will affect religion remains to be seen.
Thank you for that.
I am delighted to offer another explanation which will hopefully pass muster -
The ancient maps of the earth had the legend 'There Be Dragons' at the edges, because at the time, people believed a ship sailing too near the edge of the world would either succumb to a famished mythical beast, or simply all off the edge into oblivion.
Not an inreasonable assumption when people knew nothing of what lay beyond the horizon that they could see.
But of course, maps don't say that any more, because we know it's not true - but it was the school of thought at the time, so everyone simply accepted it.
Science will eventually discover and explain every unexplained phenomenon there is - how that will affect religion remains to be seen.
Mamya - // Very well, then start a question on that and let those of us who want to read about star formation read this thread. //
Once again, if that was aimed at me, you are experienced enough on here to know that threads go the way posters wish them to go - no-one has the right to dictate that direction, or what anyone may or may not wish to post on that thread.
Therefore, my post remains, as valid a part of the discussion as yours.
If you don't like it, feel free to desist from your off-thread criticisms and let things take their course.
Once again, if that was aimed at me, you are experienced enough on here to know that threads go the way posters wish them to go - no-one has the right to dictate that direction, or what anyone may or may not wish to post on that thread.
Therefore, my post remains, as valid a part of the discussion as yours.
If you don't like it, feel free to desist from your off-thread criticisms and let things take their course.
The reason I asked the question, (big long exasperated sigh), was because, I really could not fathom how pressures could be generated in a vacuum.
Jim360, with the clue, ''swirling,'' throws some light on the subject.
''God wot dun it?''
Yes of course He did!
But the processes He employed are of great interest to me.
Don't worry folks, I'm not trying to evangelise you lot!
(No preaching from me!)
Anyway, being very curious about what science has to say on a variety of topics, this has been just one question, I do have more you know:-)
Now if you would all like to join with me in singing a hymn .....
Jim360, with the clue, ''swirling,'' throws some light on the subject.
''God wot dun it?''
Yes of course He did!
But the processes He employed are of great interest to me.
Don't worry folks, I'm not trying to evangelise you lot!
(No preaching from me!)
Anyway, being very curious about what science has to say on a variety of topics, this has been just one question, I do have more you know:-)
Now if you would all like to join with me in singing a hymn .....
Even that feels a bit of a stretch, imo -- for example, the reference to "dragons" is likely to be taking poetic licence too literally, and in any case was rarely used:
https:/
while the prevalence of belief in a flat Earth is also somewhat exaggerated:
https:/
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while the prevalence of belief in a flat Earth is also somewhat exaggerated:
https:/
// people believed a ship sailing too near the edge of the world would simply fall off the edge into oblivion. //
That is a myth. Man has been using boats for at least 10,000 years. Sailors realised there was danger in uncharted waters, but they never believed they would fall off.
By the time we got bigger ships and long distance voyages about 1000 years ago, the fact that the Earth was round had already been known for 1000 years.
That is a myth. Man has been using boats for at least 10,000 years. Sailors realised there was danger in uncharted waters, but they never believed they would fall off.
By the time we got bigger ships and long distance voyages about 1000 years ago, the fact that the Earth was round had already been known for 1000 years.
I found this after reading sunk's comment, interesting
https:/
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Further, let me address two other points:
1 -- it's a matter for Theland, rather than anybody else, what the motivation behind this question actually was. Wasting time second-guessing it detracts from a potentially interesting discussion about the physics of star formation. If you personally aren't interested in that, andy, then that's of course your prerogative, but the discussions about aspects of the question that have nothing to do with Star formation and everything to do with the person asking have been done to death on AB, and can easily be continued elsewhere if people so desire. The point is that this isn't the place -- at least, until such time as the OP explains their motivations behind the question.
2. Moreover, although it's a matter of interpretation, it need hardly be a contradiction that on the one hand so-and-so believes that God created the Universe, but on the other hand so-and-so is interested in the physical mechanisms within that Universe. As a matter of historical fact, science was very often driven by precisely that desire -- "by His works shall ye know Him" (I'm taking that quote slightly out of context in the Bible, but the spirit still ran through Islam and Christian thought for centuries). In that case, the religious context of this question is neither here nor there, and should be treated as such.
1 -- it's a matter for Theland, rather than anybody else, what the motivation behind this question actually was. Wasting time second-guessing it detracts from a potentially interesting discussion about the physics of star formation. If you personally aren't interested in that, andy, then that's of course your prerogative, but the discussions about aspects of the question that have nothing to do with Star formation and everything to do with the person asking have been done to death on AB, and can easily be continued elsewhere if people so desire. The point is that this isn't the place -- at least, until such time as the OP explains their motivations behind the question.
2. Moreover, although it's a matter of interpretation, it need hardly be a contradiction that on the one hand so-and-so believes that God created the Universe, but on the other hand so-and-so is interested in the physical mechanisms within that Universe. As a matter of historical fact, science was very often driven by precisely that desire -- "by His works shall ye know Him" (I'm taking that quote slightly out of context in the Bible, but the spirit still ran through Islam and Christian thought for centuries). In that case, the religious context of this question is neither here nor there, and should be treated as such.
Theland - // ''God wot dun it?''
Yes of course He did!
But the processes He employed are of great interest to me. //
Your Question is obviously unanswerable - no-one knows what God's 'processes' are (We'll take a difference about the existence of God as a given shall we).
But I would suggest that any divine being capable of creating a universe would not waste time with anything so mundane as processes of any kind - surely he merely has to wish it for it to be so?
Yes of course He did!
But the processes He employed are of great interest to me. //
Your Question is obviously unanswerable - no-one knows what God's 'processes' are (We'll take a difference about the existence of God as a given shall we).
But I would suggest that any divine being capable of creating a universe would not waste time with anything so mundane as processes of any kind - surely he merely has to wish it for it to be so?
Sunk - // Man has been sailing boats for more than 10,000 years. //
That is evidence that man has been sailing boats - there was no circumnavigation 10,000 years ago, and prior to the first circumnavigation, sailors believed the earth was flat, and they would fall off it.
The first recorded circumnavigation was in 1519 - and there are plenty of maps drawn before then showing the earth as flat and square.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that?
That is evidence that man has been sailing boats - there was no circumnavigation 10,000 years ago, and prior to the first circumnavigation, sailors believed the earth was flat, and they would fall off it.
The first recorded circumnavigation was in 1519 - and there are plenty of maps drawn before then showing the earth as flat and square.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that?
Theland - // Yes He could. //
I'm assuming - correct me if I am wrong, that you are agreeing that God could simply wish for the universe to be created - fusion included - then, again, why would you be interested in an alternative explanation of any sort, since clearly, as a Christian, you should not beleive it.
I'm assuming - correct me if I am wrong, that you are agreeing that God could simply wish for the universe to be created - fusion included - then, again, why would you be interested in an alternative explanation of any sort, since clearly, as a Christian, you should not beleive it.
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